Redding bushing die worth it?

[fisherman983]

I have a custom 264 win mag, and ive tossed the idea around several times to buy a set of fancy bushing dies.

I'm a newbie to bushing dies and have no idea where to start. How much neck tension do i need? How do i know if it's right or not?

I'm currently using a standard set of rcbs dies. If there is something else I should be using instead I'm up for suggestions as well.

 

[bigedp51]

At the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases using non-bushing full length dies.

With bushing dies when you reduce the neck diameter .004 of more it will induce neck runout. And I think this is why so many reloaders use a Lee collet die. Bushing dies work best with custom tight neck chambers and neck turned brass. And the standard SAAMI chamber will let the case neck expand over .004 and cause the bushing die to induce neck runout.

I prefer Forster benchrest full length dies with the high mounted floating expander that greatly reduces neck runout.

Below I ordered Forster expander and spindle assemblies for all my older RCBS dies. This reduces neck runout, one of the biggest reasons for runout is caused if the expander is locked down off center.

The expander on the left is a RCBS expander raised as high as it will move. On the right is the replacement Forster expander and spindle assembly.

Below the Forster high mounted floating expander, the neck of the case is held and centered in the neck of the die when the expander enters the case neck. And the floating expander stays centered and can not pull the neck off center.

Bottom line I get less runout and more concentric cases using the Forster FL dies than using any type bushing die.

 

[AZShooter]

Quite frankly if your 264 is shooting accurately with the standard RCBS die set and it is a hunting rifle I doubt you will gain any accuracy by using a bushing die. You might cause the necks to last a bit longer before they work harden and split. Or if you anneal it could allow a longer interval between annealings.

There is some convenience with bushings IF you only neck size as you don't need any lubricant. It would have to be a neck sizer only S bushing die. Redding also makes a combo bushing-sizer die which would have you using sizing lube which has you doing all the cleanup things you do with the RCBS FL die.

I have found that the RCBS dies usually give you .003" difference between sized and loaded neck diameters. Perhaps you could fine tune the neck tension using a bushing for a tad more accuracy with by going with less than .003" neck tension. Less tension my cause the bullet to move in the case when in the mag box during recoil.

When working up loads the bushing makes it easy to resize the necks after the bullet is pulled from loads you don't want to continue to shoot.

There is one thing to consider....if your necks are not very consistent in thickness using a bushing die may cause variable neck tension case to case.

One way around that is to use the supplied sizer ball and a bushing that is slightly smaller than the finished OD that the sizer ball creates. With this method the working of the brass would be less than what the RCBS FL die does. A standard FL die's job is to reduce the diameter of any manufacturer's brass down enough for the sizer ball to properly open it back up for the built in neck tension. That overworks some brass.

Kind of a convoluted mess isn't it? Sometimes using a RCBS standard FL die is the best way to go.

Personally I use the RCBS or Hornady standard FL dies with my hunting rifles. I only use bushing dies with necks I have turned for custom chambers. Or in one instance the 6 BR with Lapua brass which works very well without any neck turning.

 

[dsculley]

FWIW, I got my first bushing die from Harrell Precision when I got my 6.5x47. So far I have been very please with the result of the bushing die. I have read what Whidden says about bushing dies vs full length dies and run out. I have 0 - .003 TIR on my loaded rounds, with 0 - .0015 the most common.

My first question is what are you trying to improve? What makes you think you need a new type of sizing die? Make sure you know what your goals are before you make a change. Make sure the variable is measurable. Keep good records so you will know if it was money well spent or not.

When reading these forums it is easy to get the feeling you are behind the curve on precision reloading, but before you spend a lot of money on new tools you should evaluate your current process then come up with clearly defined goals along with a process to measure current performance and any improvements.

 

[fisherman983]

FWIW, I got my first bushing die from Harrell Precision when I got my 6.5x47. So far I have been very please with the result of the bushing die. I have read what Whidden says about bushing dies vs full length dies and run out. I have 0 - .003 TIR on my loaded rounds, with 0 - .0015 the most common.

My first question is what are you trying to improve? What makes you think you need a new type of sizing die? Make sure you know what your goals are before you make a change. Make sure the variable is measurable. Keep good records so you will know if it was money well spent or not.

When reading these forums it is easy to get the feeling you are behind the curve on precision reloading, but before you spend a lot of money on new tools you should evaluate your current process then come up with clearly defined goals along with a process to measure current performance and any improvements.

That's where I'm at now with the decision
Is a new set of dies going to change anything. And would that change be measurable and worth the cost? I use Remington brass for my vld load and nosler brass for my eld-x load. I partial neck size with rcbs dies at the moment, and maybe I have my dies set up incorrectly but I'm printed multiple groups well under 1/2 moa with both loads.
At this point I've lost accuracy and speed with both loads, and now after doing a chamber/throat check I need to start chasing the lands. My thought was since I need to start my load workup over to find the node again, I would get better dies but it may be a waste of money?

 

[Barrelnut]

but I'm printed multiple groups well under 1/2 moa with both loads.
At this point I've lost accuracy and speed with both loads, and now after doing a chamber/throat check I need to start chasing the lands. My thought was since I need to start my load workup over to find the node again, I would get better dies but it may be a waste of money?

I use Redding bushing dies for some rifles. In your situation, I don't think they would improve your accuracy to any noticeable degree. Chase the lands and use the dies you have. Now, if someday you get a new barrel, maybe consider bushing dies then.

Might consider a concentricity gauge, if you don't have one.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...y&utm_campaign=itwine&utm_content=749-007-902

It will show you the neck run-out caused by your dies. It will show you your loaded ammo run-out too. If you find problems, then consider different dies. Usually FL dies produce pretty concentric necks. Neck dies, not so much.

 

[RAT807]

The biggest accuracy problem I found with my re-barreled 264wm was with brass inconsistencies. The Nosler brass had case wall variations that not only affected neck tension but also a stiff load of powder would leave the cases bent like a banana, well, the worst cases anyway. The case weights were pretty close though.
I bought 100 pieces of Winchester brass! The weight of cases went from 227 grns up to 238 grns. Case wall thickness was over .017 down to .015. I had large velocity swings, the flash holes were double punched on way too many, etc. I gave up on the whole lot.
Norma brass is where I landed and only have a few cases that vary more than .001 on necks out of 80 pieces. I set my 21 Century neck turner at .0155 and use a .292 bushing. I still use some of the Nosler brass, only the best ones. The heavier Nosler cases are very close to the Norma cases so I'm loading them the same. So far it's been promising.

If you get brass like some that I have, it won't matter which dies you have. That crap will not shoot consistently. I can't speak about how good Remington brass is but Norma is where I'm at!

 

[Greyfox]

I use the Redding bushing dyes in both FL and NS dyes for all my shooting(competition-hunting loads). The ability to control neck tension and the depth of neck constriction with bushing control has proven to be quite useful in optimizing accuracy and ES. They also lend a bit more versatility with manufacturers variations in brass "thickness" dimensions or a decision to turn the necks. I have never had problems achieving runouts in the <.001" range, consistent ballistic performance, or shortened brass life when the bushings are properly used. IMO.