Recommendations on bivy tent

[jmden]

Yeah, I keep looking at those also. One of my issues with using your trekking poles with a tent set up is that I sometimes like to leave my tent pitched and take off hunting---I hate to leave the poles behind. I've got a tarptent contrail now and I'd like to have something a little bigger, and freestanding. Here is a photo of a typical setup for me using the contrail.

Randy

Same for me. I leave my tent up and day hunt from camp when I use this small of a tent. I don't want a tent that requires that I use the trekking poles for the same reason. So far though, where i hunt, I don't need a freestanding tent and the TarpTent Rainbows work just fine AND I know I can make them freestanding with the use of trekking poles if I really need to.

Speaking of poles, I picked up, after some research, a pair of Helinox (DAC) GL 145s. 14.4 oz and supposed to deal with folks/loads up to 300lbs. Shaved over 7 oz off my old pair. There r quite a few lighter, but not sure I'd trust 'em with the over 100 lbs I carry routinly in very steep nasty terrain where I am consistently very reliant for various moves on the trekking poles. We'll see how these hold up. Old ones in car for backup til these are proven...'

BTW, also very happy with the Kifaru Bikini frame and new DT2 bag.

BTW, if folks order a TarpTent, I find that I'm not too fond of the round Easton stakes they supply. I've asked em to not include those ($6 off) and then buy: http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12066987 I think they hold alot better and because the stack/nest, they make for a smaller package. A package of six is perfect for a Rainbow or Rainbow 2.

 

[fmajor]

I have a TarpTent "Cloudburst II" which unfortunately is discontinued, though it's very nice.

Not something to withstand a wet, heavy snowfall mind you, but otherwise a very nice shelter. It's not "free-standing", but comes with poles for the "entry" and "foot" ends.

The quality of manufacture and materials is excellent. However, if big rains are expected than any silnylon shelter isn't the best choice.

 

[jmden]

I have a TarpTent "Cloudburst II" which unfortunately is discontinued, though it's very nice.

Not something to withstand a wet, heavy snowfall mind you, but otherwise a very nice shelter. It's not "free-standing", but comes with poles for the "entry" and "foot" ends.

The quality of manufacture and materials is excellent. However, if big rains are expected than any silnylon shelter isn't the best choice.

I'm curious what your experience with big rains and silnylon is. There are several variables involved, but I've spent quite a few nights in strong winds, some stormforce winds, (a couple when 12-18" diameter healthy trees were being snapped off 6-10 ft. above the ground by the winds all over the region, some way too close for comfort) and rain in silnylon shelters with no issues at all, let alone caused by rain.

Silnylon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A quick and dirty working idea of what silnylon is in general.

Hilleberg, a very respected tent manufacturer in Sweden, uses silnylons in much of their designs: Hilleberg the Tentmaker - Tear Strength

The silnylon that Terra Nova uses ( that mtnrunner was talking about--perhaps the same stuff as Hilleberg uses or close to it. This may be made in an Asian mill, although I think there may be a European mill that makes it, as the environmental regs in Asia are not as tight as the US, for instance, and they can produce silnylon material because of this that has a higher tear strength and higher hydrostatic head rating ) is especially weatherproof with hydrostatic head pressure ratings of 5000mm. Most US made stuff us much less than that, but still plenty adequate depending on a couple of variables.

Silicone impregnated/coated both sides nylon (silnylon) is incredibly strong for it's weight. Unlike urethane coatings, silicone coatings actually strengthen the nylon in ways to make an incredibly strong shelter material with very low weight.

 

[mtnwrunner]

"I'm curious what your experience with big rains and silnylon is. There are several variables involved, but I've spent quite a few nights in strong winds, some stormforce winds, (a couple when 12-18" diameter healthy trees were being snapped off 6-10 ft. above the ground by the winds all over the region, some way too close for comfort) and rain in silnylon shelters with no issues at all, let alone caused by rain."

Ummmm, strong winds, trees being snapped off, and rain---you have GOT go be talking about the cascades. Been there, done that----had a 20 inch tree snap off and fall next to the wall tent lengthwise and missed it by about 10 inches. One of my nine lives debited from the bank.....

Randy

 

[jmden]

"I'm curious what your experience with big rains and silnylon is. There are several variables involved, but I've spent quite a few nights in strong winds, some stormforce winds, (a couple when 12-18" diameter healthy trees were being snapped off 6-10 ft. above the ground by the winds all over the region, some way too close for comfort) and rain in silnylon shelters with no issues at all, let alone caused by rain."

Ummmm, strong winds, trees being snapped off, and rain---you have GOT go be talking about the cascades. Been there, done that----had a 20 inch tree snap off and fall next to the wall tent lengthwise and missed it by about 10 inches. One of my nine lives debited from the bank.....

Randy

Yep. When you wake up from fitful sleep at 2am wondering what heavy thing just hit the ground a few feet from the tent...

 

[fmajor]

I'm curious what your experience with big rains and silnylon is. There are several variables involved, but I've spent quite a few nights in strong winds, some stormforce winds, (a couple when 12-18" diameter healthy trees were being snapped off 6-10 ft. above the ground by the winds all over the region, some way too close for comfort) and rain in silnylon shelters with no issues at all, let alone caused by rain.

Silnylon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A quick and dirty working idea of what silnylon is in general.

Hilleberg, a very respected tent manufacturer in Sweden, uses silnylons in much of their designs: Hilleberg the Tentmaker - Tear Strength

The silnylon that Terra Nova uses ( that mtnrunner was talking about--perhaps the same stuff as Hilleberg uses or close to it. This may be made in an Asian mill, although I think there may be a European mill that makes it, as the environmental regs in Asia are not as tight as the US, for instance, and they can produce silnylon material because of this that has a higher tear strength and higher hydrostatic head rating ) is especially weatherproof with hydrostatic head pressure ratings of 5000mm. Most US made stuff us much less than that, but still plenty adequate depending on a couple of variables.

Silicone impregnated/coated both sides nylon (silnylon) is incredibly strong for it's weight. Unlike urethane coatings, silicone coatings actually strengthen the nylon in ways to make an incredibly strong shelter material with very low weight.

My experiences with silnylon tents (my TarpTent and one other unknown tent belonging to a hiking pal) in rainy weather were generally favorable given the weight trade-off.

However, what I've found in rain is that when big drops are falling they tend to, after awhile, create a sort of "mist" effect inside the tent. It's not like the rain water is just streaming in; Rather it presents as a light mist and getting things inside damp (after an all-night storm). I have observed this on at least 4 occasions from cold, at-timberline-elevation rain to mid-summer storms.

Maybe my experiences aren't the norm, but it has affected which tent I pack given anticipated weather. Incidentally, I pitch my tents very taut and 2x seal the seams (I go through 2-3x the recommended seam sealer..... my experiences have made me OCD I guess).

 

[jmden]

My experiences with silnylon tents (my TarpTent and one other unknown tent belonging to a hiking pal) in rainy weather were generally favorable given the weight trade-off.

However, what I've found in rain is that when big drops are falling they tend to, after awhile, create a sort of "mist" effect inside the tent. It's not like the rain water is just streaming in; Rather it presents as a light mist and getting things inside damp (after an all-night storm). I have observed this on at least 4 occasions from cold, at-timberline-elevation rain to mid-summer storms.

Maybe my experiences aren't the norm, but it has affected which tent I pack given anticipated weather. Incidentally, I pitch my tents very taut and 2x seal the seams (I go through 2-3x the recommended seam sealer..... my experiences have made me OCD I guess).

You may be experiencing what is called 'misting' where there is enough hydrostatic head created by very large, storm force wind driven rain drops hitting at right angles (see the several variables here already) to tent fabric that could conceivable cause some amount of moisture to seep through. The extreme conditions necessary to come together to creat this type of scenario are pretty rare however as they must also be coupled with a waterproofing (silicone or PU) that has likely been damaged or broken down with use to a degree.

You can do all kinds of research on this phenomena and BackpackingLight.com - The Community of Lightweight Hiking and Backcountry Travel is a great place to start. This is a great forum for any of you backpacking guys. They do a pretty good job of staying on the 'cutting edge' in terms of good gear, techniques, etc. There's research that shows the size/weight of raindrops and the resultant force on tent fabric at right angles and other angles depending on the force of the wind, etc, etc. if you really want to look into it. BUT, more than likely what you are experiencing is simple condensation naturally forming (very typical given the conditions you mention) on the inside of your tent fabric, then getting knocked off of the inside of the tent fabric by the force of the raindrops and perhaps wind hitting the outside of the fabric. One of the most respected staffmembers backpackinglight.com who's experience and research is amazing has this to say as a general statement about such situations:

"I am going to agree with Steve here. It is extremely unlikely that falling rain could create enough hydrostatic head to push that much water through silnylon. Even torrential rain. The outside surface of the fabric gets a film of water on it which buffers the raindrops.

In torrential rain the fly will cool fast, helped by the fact that the rain is often significantly colder than the ambient air. Of course, your being inside the tent with some damp clothing is going to create ideal conditions for condensation to happen within seconds. The rain on the warm ground will do the same.

Take a cold bottle out of the fridge on a humid day and see how long it takes for condensation to form. It can be very fast.

You will note that some people say it didn't happen to them. A distinguishing feature between the two cases is often that the 'torrential rain' is on a very still humid day, possibly warm, while the other cases are on less humid days, possibly cooler, with some wind.

Taking a step back from the details, to what sort of tent is suitable. This is a subject which has been thrashed over many times here. A double skin tent (NOT a netting inner but real fabric!) is generally the recommended solution for these conditions."

 

[fmajor]

Thanks for posting the link and info!

I used to post at backpackinglight maybe 10 years ago and wrote/contributed to an article on winter backpacking "stuff".

You could well be right that I was experiencing "misting" from condensation that may have been present on the inside of the tent.

However, I don't get this phenomena when using my Integral Designs MK2 XL single-wall. Maybe I just didn't pay enough attention during those inclimate weather times.

Aside from this particular problem, the TarpTent Cloudburst is very well made and designed. Henry has a couple new designs that look very nice as well and I was in the market I'd be taking a long look at a couple of them.

 

[jmden]

Thanks for posting the link and info!

I used to post at backpackinglight maybe 10 years ago and wrote/contributed to an article on winter backpacking "stuff".

You could well be right that I was experiencing "misting" from condensation that may have been present on the inside of the tent.

However, I don't get this phenomena when using my Integral Designs MK2 XL single-wall. Maybe I just didn't pay enough attention during those inclimate weather times.

Aside from this particular problem, the TarpTent Cloudburst is very well made and designed. Henry has a couple new designs that look very nice as well and I was in the market I'd be taking a long look at a couple of them.

Is the fabric on the ID tent like 'Toddtex' used by Bibler (now Black Diamond) where there is a wicking layer on the interior? I can't remember now what the ID fabric looks like on the inside.

 

[Pdvdh]

BTW, if folks order a TarpTent, I find that I'm not too fond of the round Easton stakes they supply. I've asked em to not include those ($6 off) and then buy: DAC Tent Stakes, 6 Pack - Eastern Mountain Sports I think they hold alot better and because the stack/nest, they make for a smaller package. A package of six is perfect for a Rainbow or Rainbow 2.

Thanks for the tip on the tent stakes. I shopped them, but in order to get them shipped to Alaska, it was just about as cheap to order these Vargo brand titanium tent stakes from a seller on FleaBay. Titanium Crevice Stake

So that's what I just did. Will be interesting to see if titanium is stouter than the aluminum version.

 

[fmajor]

I think it's the same stuff - "ToddTex" and whatever Integral Designs used to call it - "TegralTex" or something similar iirc.

I'm not entirely sure, but the "TegralTex" seemed like the "host" fabric was slightly heavier than the "ToddTex", but don't hold me to it!

 

[jmden]

I think it's the same stuff - "ToddTex" and whatever Integral Designs used to call it - "TegralTex" or something similar iirc.

I'm not entirely sure, but the "TegralTex" seemed like the "host" fabric was slightly heavier than the "ToddTex", but don't hold me to it!

That's what I thought. My Bibler was the same way. That fuzzy wicking inner layer would most likely keep true 'misting' from occurring as well as reducing the issues from actual condensation getting bounced off the tent wall during a rainstorm. I was always amazed at how dry the interior of the Bible seemed to be. That fuzzy interior fabric layer had to have something to do with that I think.

 

[jmden]

Thanks for the tip on the tent stakes. I shopped them, but in order to get them shipped to Alaska, it was just about as cheap to order these Vargo brand titanium tent stakes from a seller on FleaBay. Titanium Crevice Stake

So that's what I just did. Will be interesting to see if titanium is stouter than the aluminum version.

Yikes on the shipping to AK. I've looked at those Vargo stakes and I'm sure they are a great stake--price was the issue for me, but for you, that was equalized it appears.

Titanium Tent Stakes

The DAC stakes are 7000 series Aluminum which, in general nearly equals the strength of mild steels. The link I posted to--those stakes are .40 oz, not the .5 mentioned.

There are so many different alloys of titanium with so many different strengths/weaknesses that I'm always a bit leery to buy titanium stuff unless I know what the exact alloy is. I'm sure these vargo stakes are made from the right stuff, however. That Vargo stake should be a great lightweight, stackable/low bulk stake.

 

[mtnwrunner]

SHTF, good to see a fellow rokslider over here. Hey, what does that weigh?? And have you had it in any substantial winds??

Randy

I use a Mountainsmith Mountain LT. (photo below) Works wonderfully and is a palace for a solo hunter and roomy for 2. 109$ at Campmor you cant beat it. Holds up well in any weather. Im in Colorado if that tells you anything =-).