Recoil & Bullet Weight

Triple BB

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Thanks Hugnot! Carlock's recipe at 2913 fps with the 250's uses 91.3 grains of H1000 if it matters. You're on with the 300 grn bullet on mine at 90 grains of H1000. The gun weight is right at 11 lbs.
 

Muddyboots

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What I have always looked at is the amount of powder and weight of rifle. The bullet weight does help but a big case that is sucking your powder jug dry will always always rattle fillings.
 

ENGUNEER

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Think of the recoil of a rifle like a rocket engine ejecting both solid and gaseous masses. The force on the rifle muzzle is a function of the bullet mass, the propellant mass and their respective velocities (ie, their momentum as the time rate of change of the mass leaving the muzzle times their respective velocities), as well as the muzzle exit pressure multiplied by the bore area. In general, the force is complicated in time in that the bullet kicks first, followed by the propellant gas and muzzle pressure. These actions provide the kick force over time, which when combined with the rifle weight can be converted to the recoil energy of the rifle mentioned previously. You can somewhat control the kick from the propellant. If you are able to turn the propellent gas by 90 degrees to the bore axis (ie, muzzle brake) there will be no kick from the burned gases. You can change the bullet mass, but the bullet velocity will also likely change which will, in turn, affect the kick. You can change the bullet (ie, bore) diameter and use a different powder to affect the muzzle pressure to change the pressure induced kick. In all, it is quite complicated in that just changing the bullet mass may not give the expected result. A muzzle brake is at least easy and it will definitely result with less recoil.
 

jdavistx

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Think of the recoil of a rifle like a rocket engine ejecting both solid and gaseous masses. The force on the rifle muzzle is a function of the bullet mass, the propellant mass and their respective velocities (ie, their momentum as the time rate of change of the mass leaving the muzzle times their respective velocities), as well as the muzzle exit pressure multiplied by the bore area. In general, the force is complicated in time in that the bullet kicks first, followed by the propellant gas and muzzle pressure. These actions provide the kick force over time, which when combined with the rifle weight can be converted to the recoil energy of the rifle mentioned previously. You can somewhat control the kick from the propellant. If you are able to turn the propellent gas by 90 degrees to the bore axis (ie, muzzle brake) there will be no kick from the burned gases. You can change the bullet mass, but the bullet velocity will also likely change which will, in turn, affect the kick. You can change the bullet (ie, bore) diameter and use a different powder to affect the muzzle pressure to change the pressure induced kick. In all, it is quite complicated in that just changing the bullet mass may not give the expected result. A muzzle brake is at least easy and it will definitely result with less recoil.
A graphical representation of impulse response for various calibers.
Screen Shot 2021-09-18 at 10.56.53 AM.jpg
 

Chase723

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OP I’ll keep this straight forward. You’ll notice a reduction in recoil every ~20-25gr in bullet weight. It’s noticeable even in lighter cartridges like .243 and 6.5 Creed. You can notice the difference between 140gr, 130gr, 123gr, and 107gr etc. You will perceive that a 250gr will recoil remarkably less than a 300gr in your 338 Edge.

Yes, there are several things that contribute to perceived recoil. Rifle weight, stock design, recoil pad, muzzle brake (obviously) all contribute significantly but that’s irrelevant unless you plan to change any of those.
 

Hugnot

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I strapped my .375 into a LeadSled & then needed some epoxy to fix things up. I now use the LeadSled mounted on a tripod for my rodent rifles. The impulse thing combined a motion resistant LeadSled & rifle can allow lots of pound seconds to do a number on a valuable stock.

Whenever I have the impulse to do some cheap pain free shooting I use my .20 P.
 

Muddyboots

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I have a lead sled I used when recovering from 3rd surgery to rt shoulder. But ONLY used it for .243 just to shoot. It makes a good work bench rifle holder for cleaning etc.
 

dgr416

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I tried 300 gr serria match kings in my 338-378 weatherby .It was just too much recoil for a 9.5 pound ready to go rifle .I usually shoot 250 gr at 3100 fps no recoil problem it kicks less than my 338 win mag with 200 gr bullets .I am going to try some 225 gr8 Accubonds for long range deer if they shoot good even less recoil .I shot some 200 gr8 bullets out of the 338-378 there was no recoil I mean it's like a 223 when I use the accubrake.I decided to try it without the break with the 200 gr8 bullets it kicked like crazy .I don't like too much kick either especially getting older .I really like my 338-378 I have three of them .I hope this thing works good on long range deer I want to shoot way out there .
 

Triple BB

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I shot some 250 grain Bergers today as well as my usual 300 grn Bergers. A very noticeable difference in felt recoil between the two. Shot loads between 91.0 & 93.5 grns with H1000. Velocities ranged from 2936 - 3058. Even at the higher velocity, felt recoil was less. Will start some load development in the coming weeks. Thanks for all the information and replies.
 

Bravo 4

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The velocity difference and felt recoil is an interesting theory. With the same ammunition some of our .300 WinMags have close to 300 fps difference from one rifle to another, one may be close to 2700 and one may be closer to 3000. I do not have a way to measure actual recoil numbers, but maybe do a side by side blind test with a couple rifles that are on the two extremes as far as velocity.
 

VLD Pilot

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I'm shooting a 338 Edge with a 300 grn Berger. I also shoot a 300 RUM. Both rifles are similar in build and weight including having the same brakes. I'm shooting 199 grn Hammer Hunters in the RUM. The difference in recoil is night and day between the two.

My question is, how much bullet weight would I have to drop to start noticing a reduction in recoil with the Edge?
Going from a 300 Berger to the 250 Berger in my 338 LM improved, I notice a difference. It's not great but it's noticeable. Could prove to offer another half dozen shots without a muzzle brake before taking a break.
 

jdavistx

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Going from a 300 Berger to the 250 Berger in my 338 LM improved, I notice a difference. It's not great but it's noticeable. Could prove to offer another half dozen shots without a muzzle brake before taking a break.
I actually hate to be the engineer in the room. It's 1/2 the mass of the bullet x velocity**2. So if you watch the velocity, you generally get a good result on reducing recoil. Of course, there is an impulse response that tends to be sharper with lighter, faster bullets (depends on what you respond to best), the mass of the rifle, and the loss of downrange energy (based mostly on BC over 500 yards). Some (like Hammers, which seem to be the rage) have a much worse stated BC than your Bergers and limit your effective range by as much as 100 yards based upon your energy on target minimum. Isn't life interesting? Tradeoffs. It's just math and empirical data which doesn't play favorites. I like fast and flat. Good hunting. Best.
 
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