reamers

[clemens]

OK have a question that I believe is self explanatory but will ask anyway and give reason for question. OK more then one. Those of you who have had wildcat or chambers reamed and had to.have special demention reamers made or smith didn't have it in shop and if smith orders it but you paid for reamer is the reamer yours to use on later builds.
Reason to ask-Had discussion on building a rifle he had built for a customrer it was a .338Titon. He said reamer had to be ordered from Italy cause no one had one in the states, and price was added to cost of build ($5000). who owns the reamer, customer or smith. To me self explanatory and say customer does for that kind of money. Odd question I know just wanted to check to see what builders and buyers had to say. If smith orders and wants the reamer to have for future projects then I would say smith buys it and keeps it. Not trying to start battle just really curious before I start a build.

 

[Hired Gun]

If it's on the invoice billed to the customer then it belongs to the customer.

I don't believe anyone other than Lazzeroni has permission to use a 338 Titan reamer. Speaks volumes of both the reamer maker and the rifle builder.

 

[clemens]

Speaks volumes as in good? The smith started in the business at 12 yes old and did apprenticeship for 10 yrs. He been doing this for long time. Got some serious connections one could say. I did see the rifle he built. Really nice job. Thanks for the reply and info.

 

[J E Custom]

OK have a question that I believe is self explanatory but will ask anyway and give reason for question. OK more then one. Those of you who have had wildcat or chambers reamed and had to.have special dimension reamers made or smith didn't have it in shop and if smith orders it but you paid for reamer is the reamer yours to use on later builds.
Reason to ask-Had discussion on building a rifle he had built for a customer it was a .Titan. He said reamer had to be ordered from Italy cause no one had one in the states, and price was added to cost of build ($5000). who owns the reamer, customer or smith. To me self explanatory and say customer does for that kind of money. Odd question I know just wanted to check to see what builders and buyers had to say. If smith orders and wants the reamer to have for future projects then I would say smith buys it and keeps it. Not trying to start battle just really curious before I start a build.

The reamer belongs to the customer unless he decides to give it to the smith.

On wildcat reamers I recommend that the customer keep it in case he ever needs to re barrel
or simply set the chamber back he has the exact same reamer.

Most smiths can,t use a custom reamer(No call for one from another customer)so they don't need
it.

If the reamer is something I think I may use, and the customer dosen,t want it I ether store it for him of pay/credit him half the cost and it becomes mine to use.

And in the event he ever wants to chamber another rifle in the same caliber or with the same changes I do not charge him reamer charges (He already paid for it once).

Also in the case where the reamer is not standard and the customer did not have any use or did not want the reamer, and it was something I would never use, I send it back to the reamer maker to have it re-sharpened into something SAMMI spec. that I can/will use.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[clemens]

OK that makes sense. Thanks JE for the reply.

 

[Hired Gun]

Volumes as in not good at all. The 338 Titan is a proprietary cartridge that is fiercely guarded by Lazzeroni. Just like many others such as the Whisper series and Kirby's Allen Magnums to name but a few. The US reamer makers are honor bound to not be giving away proprietary designs that cost thousands to develop and support. Your smith is a not an honorable man unless he has documentable permission to use the design. Very shifty to go outside the country to get it made. Does he do any other clone work marketing, say for China? Good money in fake Leupolds I hear.

 

[J E Custom]

Volumes as in not good at all. The 338 Titan is a proprietary cartridge that is fiercely guarded by Lazzeroni. Just like many others such as the Whisper series and Kirby's Allen Magnums to name but a few. The US reamer makers are honor bound to not be giving away proprietary designs that cost thousands to develop and support. Your smith is a not an honorable man unless he has documentable permission to use the design. Very shifty to go outside the country to get it made. Does he do any other clone work marketing, say for China? Good money in fake Leupolds I hear.

Hired gun is right. If it is a proprietary cartridge you have to have the rifle built by the cartridge designer unless he gives you or a reamer maker permission to make you a reamer.

The problem with proprietary cartridges anyone can(and does) change the reamer dimensions
and call it a wild cat with there own name and build an equally performing cartridge. Proprietary
cartridges are very hard to protect and can be reproduced in performance.

I personally don,t like proprietary cartridges because there is all ways something close to there performance and with reamers, Gage's and brass availability without the hassle.

I have designed several different cartridges and gave the reamer makers permission to use them
because of this.

If you want one of these rifles/cartridges you should go to the source and be prepared to pay for
a proprietary cartridge.

Otherwise , build something else without the problems.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[Broz]

I have ran into this. I picked the caliber and mods., I ordered, and paid with my card for the reamer. The smith called the reamer grinder to check dimensions. At this point I am waiting for my reamer to show up. After a while I make a few calls and find the smith had them send it to him directly. No problem so far. He uses it for other builds than mine, my build goes late on completion time. When I pick up the rifle the smith bristles up when I ask for my reamer. It's like there is some unwritten rule that some smiths feel they should own the reamers. Haven't been back.

Jeff

 

[clemens]

I have not used this smith I have talked to him about rebuilding a rifle for me when he shoed me his work and the work he did was the TITON. I have no interest in building one if those at all. If he does have written permission one would hope he would be willing to show the proof to back up his integrity and his business. I asked the question about thee reamers cause I wasn't sure how that all works now that I know.
There are 2-3 other builders in my area if I decide to keep it local. Couple red flags keep me wondering. Thanks guys for the info

 

[orwapitihunter]

I can't speak to the 8.59 Titan, but I had no problem ordering a new 7.82 Warbird reamer from PT&G. My original tube finally went south so I needed to rebarrel.
As far as your situation, ask your smith. As long as it is something I can see using again I will usually shoulder the majority of the cost and keep it. If it isn't something I will use, then I expect the customer to pay for and keep it.

 

[Hired Gun]

Maybe John Lazzeroni has relaxed his hold on those calibers. I hope so. Maybe he will post his current position.

 

[LazzInc]

guys ,,,,,,

you can get a Lazzeroni spec reamer for any of our cartridges from JGS Precision tool in Oregon ,,,,,,

they are good folks and will treat you right ,,,,,,

they have been supplying Lazzeroni spec reamers for our various chambering's since 1996 ,,,,,,

 

[clemens]

Answered that question and removed that issue from red flag list I had. Thanks for the reply did not think my original question would go this far it had been real informative

 

[Zep]

excellent thread!