Questions & thought's on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by budlight, Apr 11, 2005.

  1. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    I've been researching ideas about what to make in 6mm. This weekend I bought a nice .243 Rem 700 just for the action.

    Good Grouper has already told me his thoughts on the 6mm Dasher. I have also looked up infor on the 6mm BR, 6mmXC, and I've kind of ruled out the short barrel life 6mm-06 idea.

    28 or 30 inch barrel and since it's going to be less of a paper gun I was going for the 1-10 twist and the 90 ish plus or minus 5 grain bullets. Also my max distance planned is sub 600 yards. I was told by a gun smith that The 6XC using the 22-250 type case was the best comprimize for Horse Power and long shooting strings required for PP hunting.

    The choices other than the inherent accuracy of some of the BR cases really comes down to case volume. From a low of @30 gr 6mm BR to 40 grains in the 6XC to @50 in a full size .243
     
  2. MachV

    MachV Well-Known Member

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    When I think of prairie dogs the 223 comes to mind.Cheap, available everywhere,barrels last forever and they dont heat up very fast!
    You did however ask what 6mm round for dogs under 600 so why not a 6-223?Have used 55grainers in the 243 and made some great vidio and the 6-284 will reach way out there but have wondered if the 6-223 wouldnt get it done with a minimum amount of fuss?
    It would be interesting to hear what other doggers think would be the best alaround 6mm round for less than 600yards.
     
  3. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    If you like the idea of a 6mm BR case, then the good old 6BR is plenty for what you want to do. 87gr Vmax, Benchmark/Varget and you are good to 750yds.

    The 223 with a faster twist is also a great option. Easier on the shoulder and pocket book too. Look at the 75gr Amax, 77/80gr Nosler/Sierra. They will work just fine out to the ranges you want to shoot.

    Jerry
     
  4. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    223's just don't make red vapor and neither do the heavy bullets in 243 or any heavy bullet in any caliber for that matter. Unless your shooting the super magnums. I shot a 22-250 26 inch bull barrel for years untill I figured out that .277 cal. was a very impressive gopher gun with 100 - 110 grain bullets going 3500 - 3600 fps. It's problem is barrel heat and rate of sustained fire.

    The BC of 87, 90, 95 grain 243's would make them acceptable if driven fast enough out of a 28 - 30 inch barrels to be very lethal in the 200 - 500 yards that I normally shoot at.
     
  5. Alucard

    Alucard Well-Known Member

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    If you want a devistating .277 cal cartridge, have a look at the .270 Allen mag of Kirbys. That will make the "red mist" out of gophers and prairie dogs!

    Also, I don't think that you can beat the .243 Win in the 6mm category for destruction on little fur bearers. Get a 70 gr TNT, and top load the sucker, and you will get all the "red mist" that you want. If you want to stick with the .224 cal, you could always get a .22-250 Rem re-chambered to a .22-250 Ackly or step up to the .220 Swift. If the .220 still doesn't have what you are looking for, you could get that rechambered to the .220 Swift Improved. I know a guy who was getting 4700 fps + with 35 gr Bergers out of his Improved.

    If you are looking for outright accuracy, there is nothing wrong with the 6mm BR. Plenty of power of gophers and prairie dogs, plus great long range accuracy.

    But, ultimately, go with what your budget affords you.
     
  6. Waltech Jim

    Waltech Jim Writers Guild

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    Budlight,

    I would be more inclined to go with the .243. You know.....you can load the big ones down, but you can't load the smaller ones up.

    The 87 V-max is one of the best, (if not THE best) but a little heavy for my liking. I shot this on pds for a couple of years in a heavy Rem 600. I went to 58-70 gr. pills to reduce recoil and increase visual effects. The "trade off" was worth it to me. IMO you should plan on a muzzle break.

    Jim
     
  7. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Budlight,

    I would be more inclined to go with the .243. You know.....you can load the big ones down, but you can't load the smaller ones up.

    Jim

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Jim - My very thoughts when it comes to power. That's why I first considered the 6mm-06 60 grains of some slow powder should really get some 87 -100 grain bullet moving. But I've already got a 29 inch barrel 270 AI that can really move 100 grain bullets.

    The idea of tiny goups on paper also appeals to me and it seems to me that on a national level it's only being done with 6mm XC and the smaller cases. Your limiting yourself to the 1-8 twist and only shooting 100+ grain bullets. I've not heard how 243's do with 1-10 twist lighter non match bullets and 30 inch barrels.

    I don't really think that a little 6mm needs a muzzle brake when it's got a big barrel. I don't have one on my 458's and they shoot just fine!
     
  8. Ackman

    Ackman Member

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    6mm and prairie dogs......

    Talking prairie dogs, you really do need a .223. It would be your main gun. But since you're talking 6mm.....

    We were on the never-ending quest for a perfect prairie dog cartridge. Something that shoots flat enough to not need lots of scope adjustments. And since it's usually hot with lots of targets, the cartridge can't burn too much powder. More powder=more heat=less time between cooldowns. We settled on the 6mm-250, which is just a necked up 22-250....stupid simple to make. The 6XC you mentioned sounds good also, basically the same, just a 6-250 with less body taper. I don't have one, but do have 2 - 6/250's and can tell you about that. It shoots 55's faster than a 22-250 will shoot 55's. It pushes 65 and 70's a little less fast than a .243, but does it with 8-10gr less powder. For PD's, you don't want to mess with heavy bullets in that cartridge. Lighter bullets=less bearing surface=less friction=less heat and fouling. And, better blowups. Plus, I hate lobbing slow bullets at small targets. Here're some numbers to look at, taken from the way my guns are set up and shooting conditions you'd encounter.....6500' elevation, 90* temp. The velocities are approximate, but you'll get the idea. The Zero is 200yds.

    Bullet(BC)..Velocity...Drop/Wind-350......Drop/Wind-500
    55BT(.276)....3800......-7.2/8.1...........-24.4/17.4
    70BT(.310)....3550......-8.1/7.6...........-27.2/16.7
    90BT(.365)....3100......-10.9/7.7..........-34.9/16.5

    These numbers are conservative, and the 90gr is just a guess...I don't shoot heavy bullets. You can see the light bullets shoot flatter, give up very little in a 10mph wind, and are sure gonna have a better splat factor. My guns see mostly 65's and 70's. I also shoot a couple .243AI's and a std .243, but the 6-250 is a better prairie dog gun. More shots between cooldown and cleaning, less heat, and less barrel fouling. One thing...prairie dogs at 600yds sounds good, but in reality most are 300yds and less. It's really not necessary to shoot them further unless you specifically want to. I like the 6-250 a whole lot, that's why there are two of them. My reamer has a .270" neck which is perfect for unturned PMC brass. I've made the stuff by necking up 22-250 cases, and necking down .250Savage...they both work just fine, but the .250 brass needs turning. Both guns have brakes and are just a joy to shoot. They go bang and don't even move.
     
  9. Ackman

    Ackman Member

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    One more thing........

    For the 6-250 or 6XC, slower twist is good...12 is about perfect for the bullet weights that work best on prairie dogs.
     
  10. 308 nate

    308 nate Well-Known Member

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    HI,
    If you are building this gun for prairie dogs,with a max range of 600yds.I agree with ACKMAN 100% a 12 twist with a 55gr. nosler with 35grs. of A2230 will get you 3900 FPS.in a 28" Krieger.
    What you have to remember is time of flight is a big factor in wind drift,it's not just B.C.
    The 6BR is one of my favorite rounds I currently have two of them and I have three reamers one for the 105's and one for the 55gr.with a .040 throat. and then the 6BR Dasher throated for the 105's.
    The dasher reamer has not been used yet and I am gettting anxious to build myself a dasher for F class with McMillan new lowpro F-class stock,but that will have to wait until I finish two of my other gun projects.
    My advice would be to either go with the 12 twist with the 55-70gr. bullets or go with the 8 twist with the 90-115's
    the 10 twist does not give you the best of both worlds and if your going custom you may as well go for the best,
    FWIW,
    308Nate
     
  11. TOM H

    TOM H Well-Known Member

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    Re: Questions & thought\'s on 6mm for BR and prarrie poodles.

    I shoot the following for PD a 6mmrem 1/14twist,6br 1/14twist, two 6brtalldog both 1/14twist,three 6ppc 1/14 twist,6x284 1/14 twist, two 6mmremAI both 1/10 twist and a factory 243 and a custom. One caliber I would consider would be a 6x22-250AI with a 1/14 twist. For my type of PD hunting I like a 1/14 twist for 68/70 gr bullets in the 1/10 twist I use either 80 or 100gr bullets. I also like to have at least two rifles one for the close in stuff 300yd and another for the longer shots. I tried a 1/8 twist for those LVD bullets but didn't get along to well with it. I've had pretty good luck with the 6mmremAI using 80 and 100gr bullets. The Dasher and 6X have made a name for themselves using LVD bullets and I also think the 6x had about the right case capacity for the 600yd and Dasher for the 1000yd. The old 6Int (6x250) was done up in the 50's as a 300rd round for the Army and Rem made them for awhile in the 40x, Tubbs just reworked an old round that alot of varmit hunter used. A 243AI or 6remAI with a 1/12 twist using the 80/85 gr bullet would be a nice varmit round I don't think the case capacity of the 6x would work and the same with the Dasher case. The 6Br was always alittle over case capacity reason the short BR did so well so blowing it out to a Dasher worked good with the LVD bullets. Nice thing about the 243AI and 6AI is you can load them up or down. Beside the the 221,222 I like the 222AI,22br,223AI and 22-250AI. Well just my .02
     
  12. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Re: One more thing........

    [ QUOTE ]
    For the 6-250 or 6XC, slower twist is good...12 is about perfect for the bullet weights that work best on prairie dogs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thanks for the info. Barrel heat was real problem last year. It took all day to shoot 500 round with cool down time. This year is going to be multiple guns and the 6XC or 6-250 appears to be the logical choice. I'm going to have to think about the bullet weight and twist.

    I've shot 1000's of rounds through my old 22-250 It's a great gun for youngsters. The 223 has never impressed me. It and anything less than 22-250's are not real varmint guns. I'm not out shooting to save money. I'm taking plane flights and time off away from work and home.
     
  13. Ackman

    Ackman Member

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    .223.............

    I'm not sure why you think .223's "...are not real varmint guns", but I assure you they are. A "real varmint gun" can be used with minimal heat buildup and fouling over a period of time. In many situations, a .223 is THE perfect cartridge...the go-to gun. With 40's and 50's, a .223 will blow the crap out of small varmints in a very "real" way, and also pretty well mess up a rockchuck. The 22-250? I mostly shoot the AI version anymore, and it'll just demolish those same small critters and gutpile a rockchuck....after a day of shooting, the rocks look like they've been splattered with red paintballs. The .17AH, .17MIV, and .221 are all smaller than a .223, and they're "real varmint guns" too. The 223AI, 22/6BR, 6-250, .243AI, and larger stuff are all "real varmint guns". But a .223 is one of the very most useful and basic to any varmint hunter's arsenal.

    You never know what the conditions will be. For several days of shooting, it's nice to have 7 or 8 guns.
     
  14. MachV

    MachV Well-Known Member

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    Re: One more thing........

    [ QUOTE ]
    I've shot 1000's of rounds through my old 22-250 It's a great gun for youngsters. The 223 has never impressed me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

    Used to think the same thing about the 223.It is now the round of choice for most shots inside of 300yards.The 8 twist 22-250 shootin 75grain Amaxes gets me to 500yards where the 6-284 with 105s takes over to 800 or so then the 6.5-284 is called to duty.
    Noise as well as heat favor the smallest round possible.You can shoot a lot of 22lr and not spook the dogs much but fire one BMG round and every dog for miles heads for cover.
    Nothin against the 6/22-250(or whatever you want to call it) but its not a huge difference little of witch can be noticed by a prairie dog.
    Early season the pups realy go to pieces with a 40 grain Vmax out of the 223 but twards fall with a little weight put on it seams to take a bigger chunk of lead to tearemup.
    The best red mist I can recall came from the plain old 243 with 55 grain Nos over 4000fps,the scope would turn red and small chunks would fall back though the view(makes some great vidio!)Unfortunatly it was only minute of prairie dog to 200 yards but fun all the same.Still havent tryed the 375/50BMGsecsessfully yet but at 4450fps with a 260grain Nosler it aught to killem just fine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    anything less than 22-250's are not real varmint guns

    [/ QUOTE ]
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
    Just couldnt limit my options that much!