Quest for g7 ballistics programs (can we please make a list)

[Mikecr]

I bought a Toshiba E800 PPC a while back(when they were top dog) and ran Exbal on it. But unfortunately, it was obsolete before getting it home. No batteries, and Windows Mobile sucked completely in it. I also had a very difficult time seeing the screen in the field.

Anyway, I have since gone to a 'click card' system that I print out and carry in my back pocket.
This has range increments, clicks of elevation, and hold-off(inches) per full 5mph wind.
3 columns, laminated on a ~3x5.
It's caveman, I know, but has worked well to 600yds. I stalk within that range because I know I'm 1/2moa to it.

Something on this order could include combined coriolis and spindrift in another 'hold-off' column.
Hold-offs could also be in MOA for those who dial it(I only dial elevation).
Elevation could be in MOA as well, but really, I just want to know how many clicks from zero, and how many inches hold-off this will take.

One things for sure; In the field we don't need 'drop', but correction.

 

[bigbuck]

I use a dell axium ppc with nightforce , I was wandering if any of you guys have this set up and a load base software ? My question is how user friendly is load base compared to Exbal?

BIGBUCK

 

[jmason]

I use a dell axium ppc with nightforce , I was wandering if any of you guys have this set up and a load base software ? My question is how user friendly is load base compared to Exbal?

BIGBUCK

BB it is not difficult to use at all. Yes there's more functionality so more input is required of you if you want to use the additional functionality. I can't tell you about your axiom though. I'm sure the minimum requirements of the PPC need to run LB3 are listed on the LB web site.

 

[ss7mm]

I use a dell axium ppc with nightforce , I was wandering if any of you guys have this set up and a load base software ? My question is how user friendly is load base compared to Exbal?

BIGBUCK

I use a Dell Axim X30 and run LoadBase on it. It works flawlessly. The only change I made was to install a HD battery. I don't use Exbal on it as I had been using Exbal on a Palm and bought the Dell to run LB.

LoadBase, in my opinion, is very user friendly and very intuitive to use. Everything makes sense and all of the modules and portions of the modules are very easy to use and understand.

And........LoadBase is going to get even better in the near future.

 

[Pdvdh]

Never owned Exbal but I couldn't be happier with Patagonia's LoadBase, and their customer support. When LB3 Mobile came out, I had some issues with my PPC's display of the software. Turned out my Dell Axim X51V has a VGA display and most aren't VGA display. Gus worked on the corrective VGA 'patch' from 12:23 to 4:30 AM his time and then delivered the fix. He's also been great in assisting on a few other issues which have helped me get the most out of LoadBase ballistic software. And LB3M now incorporates both Coriolis & Spin Drift into their firing solution. This past weekend my 300 Win Mag hit 8 5/8" right at 1000 yds when I ignored Coriolis and Spin Drift. After the shot, I turned on the Coriolis and Spin Drift features for my Latitude and Azimuth, and they corrected my aiming point 9 3/4" right. So that would have put me right on the money.

Exbal could be very good software also - I must admit I've never used it. Prior to purchasing LoadBase I read posts by some ballistic-software knowledgable members who were converting over to LoadBase. The icing on the cake is that Patagonia LoadBase updates are free, and the software is continually being enhanced, partially based on user input. Now it looks like the G7 drag function BC option will be added. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[JRu]

Guys,

I'm really, REALLY, trying to complete and release the 1.0 version of our software that should give comparable results to Bryan's. It's not G7 but G7 should be easy to convert to our solution, and the software could be made to accept G7 input. Currently we're working on high-velocity G1 BC ( the most typical BC advertised by manufacturers ) and some rough knowledge on the shape of the projectile. When we have better data like Lapua's radar data or G7, we can bake our solution to match those trajectories exactly ( well, to the point of insignificant error, at least ) .

We're just a couple of hobbyists, but what we have should be adequate for all practical purposes, should someone be willing to take up electronic distribution of this thing. Remember, it's not just for smart phones but for all J2ME ( CLDC 1.1 MIDP 2.0 , if I recall correctly ) enabled phones, that should cover most phones manufactured this side of year 2000 .

Error comparison, long range optimized average G1 and our method when compared against Lapua's radar data. ( 250gr .338 Scenar around 2950fps )

( Shoot! was the project name until now but will not be a product title as it is already in use )

The chart shows error in 0,1 mrad clicks so a value of 1 equals roughly 1/3 MOA of error compared to radar data. Distances are in meters, so 1400 m is about 1540 yards. As you can see, our method follows the radar data very closely for supersonic velocities.

The software itself is a very simple "field firing solution" without extra clutter, it just outputs your elevation and windage values. Coriolis and spin drift are included ( using Bryan's formulas ) in the values so after you set up your configuration of rifle ( LOS-bore etc. ) and zero conditions ( temperature, muzzle velocity etc. ) , all you need to do is update current conditions gathered in one user menu screen ( temperature, station pressure, latitude, shooting direction, wind direction / magnitude , range , incline angle ) and you're ready to shoot. Change any value and the output ( constantly displayed at the title bar on top of your screen ) updates immediately to reflect the changes.

There's a small set of ready-made configuration files for bullets we have ballistic data for ( mostly bullets that Lapua radar data is available for ). You can add your own or manipulate the existing files.

I know some of you like to have more stuff in your PDA ballistic software but we originally didn't build this thing to be all-inclusive or to make profit, we built it for ourselves to use in high-stress situations like hunting and tactical LR competitions. It's built so I don't have to navigate any screens or go through charts of terminal velocity / energy, drop in inches etc. tables, when I'm in the field, I just want to know two things and I want to know them QUICKLY: What elevation and what windage to put on my scope turrets or reticle.

If you have interest and/or means to distribute mobile software, please pm/e-mail me. If you feel this is ad-talk/spam , please inform me and I will stop immediately. I'd just like to see this software out there and I can sometimes get over-enthusiastic about it.

 

[BryanLitz]

JRu,
Thanks for telling us about your software. I have a couple questions.

First, what do you mean by: "...all J2ME ( CLDC 1.1 MIDP 2.0 , if I recall correctly ) enabled phones..."?

Would your program also work on PDA's/PPC's?

What type of solver does your program use? From the sounds of it, you're using the Pejsa formulas.

Thanks,
-Bryan

 

[JRu]

First, what do you mean by: "...all J2ME ( CLDC 1.1 MIDP 2.0 , if I recall correctly ) enabled phones..."?

Would your program also work on PDA's/PPC's?

As far as I know, Java Mobile Edition (J2ME) is extremely widespread on GSM cell phones, smart phones, PDA/PPCs, mini laptops etc. I know some Java Virtual Machine (JVM) implementation exists for pretty much anything that can be programmed... I'm fairly confident pretty much every basic cell phone nowadays supports J2ME, if for nothing else, at least because of support for games.

Simply put, if you have a Tetris- clone or a simple space shooter in your phone, there's a good chance it will run this ballistics software. Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, HTC, Motorola... All have Java implementations and I've run this software on some very simple devices. I specifically did NOT want to make it a Symbian- only or iPhone- only. Naturally it will run on every Blackberry, iPhone and Nokia out there, as these are the more powerful phones.

What type of solver does your program use? From the sounds of it, you're using the Pejsa formulas.

Yep, we can hardly keep it a secret as the BC+"K" ( or whatever you decide to call the retardation coefficient) is a dead giveaway if you happen to be familiar with Pejsa. There's no tricks to it, it's just plain old hard work making something known ( the Pejsa formulas) into a complete product with save/load/rename/sort configurations, gathering all needed formulas into one place and wrapping it into something that doesn't throw an exception every time you enter a letter when it's expecting a number...

I was using Shawn's "spin drift as a wind function" but now I'm implementing your stability factor based formula. I already implemented your Coriolis drift, both horizontal and vertical. J2ME math library doesn't even have an exponent/non-integer power functions but we have good approximation algorithms -- in fact, we manage with just mul/div/sub/add so this thing could basically be integrated into a wristwatch if need be...

 

[Mikecr]

Guys, I'm really, REALLY, trying to complete and release the 1.0 version of our software

What software?

 

[JRu]

Our mobile ballistic software that isn't based on G7 but gives comparable results. Work-in-progress but very close to completion -- only delayed by the fact that I need to work on cancer treatment software during office hours

 

[NZ Longranger]

The problem with the Pejsa system is you have to do extensive downrange testing to establish the retardation coefficient and break velocity to get it to match your actual trajectory. Yes, once you've done that, it will get pretty close out to transonic velocities.
The only system that I've found so far that can be used from the get-go with a single input is the G7 BC. It is also the only one that can be used for comparisons between bullets, as with Pejsa, you have these 2 other factors plus the G1 BC that have to be fudged that make comparisons inaccurate.
An averaged G1 works ok to about 2000 fps or around 1000 yards with fast VLD's, a best guess Pejsa will work to a bit further, but beyond that you need to adjust with multiple BC's for G1, or retardation coefficients and break velocities for pejsa - both from actual shooting tests to have any success.
G7 is it - at this stage anyway!
Greg

 

[JRu]

The problem with the Pejsa system is you have to do extensive downrange testing

If all you have is a G1 BC then yes, finding the optimal values will require gathering velocity and/or drop data, but if you can provide us a G7 BC, you already have a very good approximation of the actual data and corresponding G1 & retardation coefficient can be solved numerically. Naturally the process can be reversed to achieve G7 BC numbers for comparison.

This is exactly the same thing we've done versus radar data, and the 338LM flight path predicted by our solver is within 0.07 MOA of error up to over 1500 yards.

"G1 BC+K flight path" , "radar data" ( actual flight path ) and "G7 BC flight path" are interchangeable to very fine accuracy, so converting between them is just the matter of solving the key values for minimum error. "Single G1 BC flight path" can't reprocude the same shape of flight path the others can, so it cannot be accurately converted.

 

[Chief1942]

JRu,
How's that Mobile Ballistics Program coming? I am currently at the point of acquiring a ballistic program to put on my pocket PC and as you might imagine, the selection is tough. especially in light of the trend toward the use of the G7 BC's.

Should I wait awhile longer or should I go ahead with something like Loadbase? thanks for the effort and any advice regarding my decision.

 

[ss7mm]

Should I wait awhile longer or should I go ahead with something like Loadbase? thanks for the effort and any advice regarding my decision.

Check this out and see what you think. Link--> http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/gus-man-his-word-guess-what-lb-3b-mobile-has-now-46360/