problems with bergers
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Ridge Runner
Well-Known Member
ok, my story I shot a 6.5 gibbs with a 30" 8 twist kreiger, I run 140's at around 3200 fps. When I first used bergers in it, there was no orange box hunting or yellow box target, there was a thick and thin jackets, I found a box of thick jackets somewhere and the accuracy was excellant, so I went hunting, only had 1 shot opprotunity, a doe at 419 yards, held for a doule lung shot hit her where I aimed, she ran 40 yards, that bullet exited almost the size of a quarter. before the next season I ran out of bullets, so sent my better 1/2 to the gunshop to get some, well they had changed them the way they were packaged, the guy running the shop, even though the mrs had the part number talked her into the orange box, well accuracy was again excellant so I got the charts tuned, rifle sighted in and went deer hunting, catastrophe struck, shot 3 deer with it that fall, ranges were 230 yards, 457 yards, 493 yards. never found the 493, lost him after 1.5 miles of tracking. the 457 I found the next morning after 1/2 mile of tracking, the 230 yard shot was a doe, she piled up after a 100 yard sprint, here is what the 2 recovered deer had for entrance wounds
as you can see total penetration was 2" or less on a lungshot, have never skinned a rib shot deer that didn't at least have a hole into the chest cavity that was visible.
so I ditched the orange box, sent the mrs back to town for the yellow boxed match bullets, once again the guy didn't want to sell them to her, cause she told him I was using them for hunting bullets, he even had her to call me and ask, then he got on the phone and was telling me the difference, so told him to tell the mrs forget it, and hung up, and ordered a yellow box online.
This year I used the yellow boxed match bullets they accounted for 5 deer, 4 of which were drt, one took a 40 yard sprint, even on not so good hits, they disrupted enough tissue and sent enough fragments into the vitals that the deer just took a dirt nap.
this was a 140# 3.5 yo 8 point, chasing does, was a bad hit, 3" below the spine at 370 yards, he never moved after the report
here is the damage, even the spine was broken, lungs were pepered with fragments, liver was totaly shredded.
decent buck for this area.
So near as I can tell my fast twist cut rifled barrel, just engraves the thin jacketed hunting bullets too deep causing violent premature expansion, however in this rifle the thick jacketed match bullets perform like the thin ones do in a different barrel.
RR
as you can see total penetration was 2" or less on a lungshot, have never skinned a rib shot deer that didn't at least have a hole into the chest cavity that was visible.
so I ditched the orange box, sent the mrs back to town for the yellow boxed match bullets, once again the guy didn't want to sell them to her, cause she told him I was using them for hunting bullets, he even had her to call me and ask, then he got on the phone and was telling me the difference, so told him to tell the mrs forget it, and hung up, and ordered a yellow box online.
This year I used the yellow boxed match bullets they accounted for 5 deer, 4 of which were drt, one took a 40 yard sprint, even on not so good hits, they disrupted enough tissue and sent enough fragments into the vitals that the deer just took a dirt nap.
this was a 140# 3.5 yo 8 point, chasing does, was a bad hit, 3" below the spine at 370 yards, he never moved after the report
here is the damage, even the spine was broken, lungs were pepered with fragments, liver was totaly shredded.
decent buck for this area.
So near as I can tell my fast twist cut rifled barrel, just engraves the thin jacketed hunting bullets too deep causing violent premature expansion, however in this rifle the thick jacketed match bullets perform like the thin ones do in a different barrel.
RR
barnesuser28
Well-Known Member
The reason they can run so far without their heart is when it is stuck, it stomps pumping and locks oxygen rich blood into the brain and muscles of the body. Allowing them to run "dead" for possibly hundreds of yards.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
That's extremely odd IMO, I've shot a lot of animals with the 140 Berger and 140 Accubond and the performance of the Berger was the reason I started loading Bergers other cals, there was no comparing them!! They normally open right at or just inside the rib cage then you can see that they open aggressively after that blowing a hole out the other side that is fist size if they exit.
And the 130 should have opened easy since you should have been running them right at the limit of the jacket, even the 140's in a WSM you can run them right at the edge for the jacket. I would dang sure shoot a detailed e-mail to Eric Stecker at Berger with the lot # and all the details.
I would take a close look at the 165 Matrix VLD, it's about as good as it gets in the 270 WSM, during my testing I shot light whitetails like yearlings to see how they did and they were impressive while still reaming any elk that got in the way gun)
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
The pics above are not the typical Berger wound, I ran a large wild game processor and now cut wild game in my extra time now and I shoot Bergers because of the lethality of them and the meat loss is minimal compared to other bullets I've used that have been labeled "premium hunting bullets".
Ridge Runner
Well-Known Member
call it what you want, all the damage you see in the pics is superfishel except the inner loins in the next to the last pic, and that was my fault from poor shot placement. They are not any worse than an accubond from what I have saw from 6 deer harvested with them.
RR
RR
7stw
Well-Known Member
Ridge Runner, I had the SAME experience last deer season, 2011. I shot two deer in July on a crop damage hunt, with similar results in a seven mag, using a 168 grain bullet. HUGE superficial wound. Then, in the November rifle season, the same thing with a 30 cal, 168 grain. Shot the deer behind the shoulder at 221 yards. The deer dropped, and laid there for 20 minutes. When I walked over to her to recover, she got up!!!!! When she ran into the woods, I saw a pie plate size flesh wound, and a puddle of blood where she was lying. But believe me, when she got up, she had plenty of energy. We tracked her her for about 3/4 mile, for there was a blood trail, but it was not a fatal hit. The bullet blowup outside of her, I'm sure. We never did find that deer, and that was the last one I have fired at deer. I'll shoot them at a match, but no more " Ham- Berger " for me thank you! I have switched to Barnes LRX bullets, VERY happy! Bang Flop, right now! That's my take, and I'm sad to say it! When I switched to the Bergers, I was caught up in the accuracy I got with them, but I am a hunter, and to me, these are not the best I can do! What I am shooting now flat out kill deer!
SaskShooter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2012
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We have to remember that Berger doesn't recommend using their bullets for hunting, with the exception of the appropriately-named VLD Hunting bullet. If you shoot target bullets, they will not perform on game because they weren't designed to.
Ridge Runner
Well-Known Member
sask, the first pic in my post was a hunting vld, had 3 in a row do that
RR
My son and I both use Berger hunting VLD's. mine in a 257WBY 115 (3240) and his 243win 95g (2608 fps). With the Weatherby I have never had a exit wound, closest shot was 12 yards longest was 470. In every case the bullet entered and exploded in the cavity. Very minimal meat damage in every animal. Even the butcher was amaized with the minimal meat damage. If you want the ribs it is not the bullet you want, but fragments don't penetrate past ribs. With the 243 he has had the same experiences wether under 20 yards or over 400. We did recover one slug on the far rib on a 434 yard shot, recovered weight was 52.3g. Both rifles have had problems with nosler Hunting BT with meat damage. I shot barnes triple shock once on a nice mule, small hole in same size hole out. Tracked for a few hours had to finish off with a neck shot, Never again. I will stick with the bergers until something better comes around.
Broz
Well-Known Member
Is that so? Please tell me of your field results that support this statement. But first you may want to read about the 19 big game kills we made with the Berger 215 Targets last season.
Thanks
Jeff
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/cmparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/
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SaskShooter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2012
- Messages
- 185
Is that so? Please tell me of your field results that support this statement. But first you may want to read about the 19 big game kills we made with the Berger 215 Targets last season.
Thanks
Jeff
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/cmparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/
.
Fair enough, I stand corrected. Although, for the record, I was referring more to the "blow up" results the others were mentioning.
Broz
Well-Known Member
Yes Sir, I understand that. Although in some instances dependent on twist, rifling, velocity and caliber the slightly thicker jackets of the Bergers labeled "Target" are actually better suited for "Hunting" from these type rifles.
My point is with bullets it is never "one size fits all"
Jeff
