Premier Reticles 5-25

[gorillamotors]

I just bought a Premier Reticles 5-25 riflescope and it is gorgeous. When I talked to a PR rep I asked him if it was zeroed in to 100 yds and he said yes. I thought about it for awhile later and asked myself what 'equavalent' round do they use to zero it. Was it a 308 M118LR, a 30-06 with 125 or 200 gr bullets, a nato 5.56, or what. Does anyone have any idea?

Jim

 

[green 788]

I think you mean calibrated (the reticle)? I don't know what bullet they would have used... I'm assuming this is a BDC type reticle... (?)

 

[gorillamotors]

I think you mean calibrated (the reticle)?

Yes

I don't know what bullet they would have used... I'm assuming this is a BDC type reticle... (?)

No. It is a Gen2XR


Jim

 

[green 788]

http://www.premierreticles.com/pdfs/2009-3-15xGen2XR.pdf

there's the link... that's a straight mil based reticle, with the bells and whistles added... it is not calibrated to any particular cartridge, like a BDC reticle.

You can make a drop chart for hold-overs, but the better thing is to dial the shots with the elevation turret.

Dan

 

[gorillamotors]

http://www.premierreticles.com/pdfs/2009-3-15xGen2XR.pdf

there's the link... that's a straight mil based reticle, with the bells and whistles added... it is not calibrated to any particular cartridge, like a BDC reticle.

You can make a drop chart for hold-overs, but the better thing is to dial the shots with the elevation turret.

Dan

Dan,

I don't want to sound arrogant but I know all that. Before they ship it it is zeroed to 100 yards. All I want to know is what is used as a standard round per se as to what they zero it at. a 22LR, a 308, a 50 cal, a 338. There has to be something they use as a guide. I guess I will have to call them up Tues and find out.

Jim

 

[pwrdbycotn]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm wondering why it matters? This isn't a BDC reticle that is tuned to some generic load for a specific caliber. When you mount this scope there are all sorts of variables that can effect where it will be aiming....base cant, machining errors, etc. This is where boresighting comes in. Premier has no way of knowing all these in order to perfectly sight in a scope for you before it is shipped. Mount the thing, boresight and fine-tune. Simple as that. Remember the KISS rule.

 

[green 788]

maybe you can teach me something here then...

They zero the scope for 100 yards, and it's supposed to be zeroed for your rifle and mounting system when you take receipt of the scope and mount it?

I'm not trying to sound arrogant either... I'm obviously misunderstanding you I guess...

Having a scope zeroed for any-rifle-USA, not to mention any mounting system... I ain't gettin' it (?)

 

[green 788]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm wondering why it matters? This isn't a BDC reticle that is tuned to some generic load for a specific caliber. When you mount this scope there are all sorts of variables that can effect where it will be aiming....base cant, machining errors, etc. This is where boresighting comes in. Premier has no way of knowing all these in order to perfectly sight in a scope for you before it is shipped. Mount the thing, boresight and fine-tune. Simple as that. Remember the KISS rule.

yeah... that. You beat me by one minute.

I would just mount the scope and zero it to your rifle as you normally do... I wouldn't call Premier and ask them that question... just sayin'

 

[gorillamotors]

... I wouldn't call Premier and ask them that question... just sayin'

I believe when you pay $3100 for a scope and you have questions you call the manufacturer. I just got off the phone with them a few minutes ago and he said absolutely call them if you have questions. This is what he said.

The scope is zeroed optically at 100 yards with a special machine based on:
1. a 20 MOA rail
2. a 147gn NATO 308 or a 168 gn match 308 (he didn't know which one)
3. 26" bull barrel

Jim

 

[pwrdbycotn]

I think what green 788 was trying to say is that if you're going to a buy a $3100 Premier then, usually, you're pretty knowledgeable about the intricacies of using, mounting and zeroing a scope. You're obviously not. It would be like buying a Ferrari 458 Italia and then asking what radio stations are programmed as presets. In other words....it's going on your rifle. Zero it yourself for your rifle. If you don't know how have someone show you how or research it and learn to do it yourself. Are you honestly going to go buy a 308 and use one of those bullets just so that you can think it's going to be zeroed when you mount it? Even if you do, I can almost guarantee it won't hit center-target when you pull the trigger the first time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't hit the target at all.

 

[gorillamotors]

I think what green 788 was trying to say is that if you're going to a buy a $3100 Premier then, usually, you're pretty knowledgeable about the intricacies of using, mounting and zeroing a scope. You're obviously not.

I don't see how you can determine this with me just asking a simple question??

In other words....it's going on your rifle. Zero it yourself for your rifle. If you don't know how have someone show you how or research it and learn to do it yourself.

After spending 30 years in the military and 10 years as a sniper instructor for a police swat team I know probably a little more about riflescopes than you do. When specialized scopes are ordered for the military or police swat teams there are certain parameter required. One of them may be to zero a scope to a specific caliber and distance. This makes it considerably easier and less expensive for the shooter to zero out his weapon. All I did was ask this question.

Are you honestly going to go buy a 308 and use one of those bullets just so that you can think it's going to be zeroed when you mount it?

I have a Remington 700 PSS with a Premier Reticles 3x15 on it and it took me less than 5 rounds to zero it out to 100 yards. This Premier 5x25 is going on either my Sako 338 Lapua magnum or my Barret 50 cal and at $5-10 a round I'm not going to spend any more than I need to. I also plan on zeroing it out at 1000 yards. All I have to do now is recompute it to shoot the 338 or 50. If I do as you suggest I would spend at least $500 than I have to to zero it out.

Even if you do, I can almost guarantee it won't hit center-target when you pull the trigger the first time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't hit the target at all.

This would definitely happen if I took your advice


Jim
Col, USAFR retired, 30 years
PhD Bio-Chemistry
MS Electrical & Aeronautical Engineering

 

[green 788]

Jim... maybe we can understand you better if you'll tell us how knowing what cartridge the scope was presumably zeroed with will help you when you mount and zero your scope.

 

[gorillamotors]

Jim... maybe we can understand you better if you'll tell us how knowing what cartridge the scope was presumably zeroed with will help you when you mount and zero your scope.

It doesn't help me when I mount the scope but it does when I zero it out.

I used to just slap a scope on and then zero it out like you guys suggested but got frustrated because sometime it took so long. A marine sniper friend of mine showed me the following method and I have using it for about 25 years. Some scopes are zeroed to 100 yds, some 200 yds, some not at all, and some others who knows what. Some people do not use a 20MOA picatinney as this scope is base on.

If a scope is zeroed at 100 yards with lets say an M852 308 match round or an M118LR 308 match round you have a basic starting point and profile for that bullet so that the cross hairs of the reticle should be on the center of the target (assuming no wind conditions for all of this). From there I can go into my notes and a military ballistics program where I can compute a new starting point for the reticle of any scope for the new cartridge (say a 338 Lapua magnum) to intersect at the center of the target at a certain distance. If I want to change from 100 to 500 or 1000 yards as my zero I can achieve this again by computing a new starting point for a scope. Again this is only a starting point and non-precise but it will get me on the paper and I do have to shoot it to perfectly zero it out. I found that this technique allows me to use less ammo to achieve my goal and like I said at $5-10 a round this allows me to do it cheaper and get less frustrated. I have been reloading for about 40 years and the 338 costs me less than $1.50 and the 50 cal about $2.50 to shoot assuming I have the brass.

Once I zero it out using this technique I them use the normal ways to shoot at closer or farther distances.

Jim

 

[green 788]

One one-thousandth of an inch at the rifle will make about a 1 inch difference at 100 yards.

With tolerance accumulations of barrel to receiver... scope base to receiver, scope rings to receiver, and scope tube fit to rings... we could come up with ten to twenty inches of error up/down or right/left at 100 yards. A crude bore sighting can get you that close or closer...

Ring height and barrel length will also come into play here.

Bullet velocity has a fair bit to do with 100 yard zero too, of course.

Even the position of the scope in the rings sitting on a 20 MOA base will affect zero point...

All this is to say that even if you used the cartridge that Premier apparently told you that they zeroed this scope at 100 yards with... and even if you used a 20 MOA base, it would still be a crap shoot as to whether you'd be on an 8 x 11 sheet of paper at 100 yards when you put that scope in your rings on your rifle.

When I mounted my friend's Leupold Mk4 on his 338LM, I bore sighted the rifle at 100 yards on a 20" square target. I checked and doubled checked until I was satisfied. The first shot (he was using 5 dollar per shot Hornady Match factory ammo) landed 2 inches away from target center.

I haven't had any issues getting on paper with one or two shots with a good bore sight at 100 yards.

If I'm using a rifle that can't be bore sighted (semi-auto or lever gun, for instance) I center the scope's reticle in its travel range (both windage and elevation) and fire a shot at 25 yards, make corrections for that range, then fire a second shot... if you're on at 25 yards, you'll easily be on a 20" square at 100 yards... fire the 3rd shot at 100, then correct, and confirm 100 yard zero with a 4th shot. This works for me.

Dan