lightbulbIt don't get no simpler than that!lightbulb
Powder scales
- Thread starter bitbythebug
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
lightbulbIt don't get no simpler than that!lightbulb
Sully2
Well-Known Member
I use the electronic scales because of ...1) speed....2) accuracy
I load the canister up with whatever powder I intend...drop say 6-7 loads to make sure Im set right....and then have to use both hands in charging casings because is so fast.
I still have my RCBS 10-10 sitting here ready for action if I should doubt something.
I load the canister up with whatever powder I intend...drop say 6-7 loads to make sure Im set right....and then have to use both hands in charging casings because is so fast.
I still have my RCBS 10-10 sitting here ready for action if I should doubt something.
engineer40
Well-Known Member
1 single grain of extruded powder surely weighs over 0.02 grains doesn't it? Are you guys cutting the granules in half or something to get your charges that exact?
Has anyone ever measured the difference in accuracy they've achieved getting to that level? I would love to test it sometime; loads within 0.10 grain vs 0.02 grain of measurement. I'm quite curious what that actually translates to on paper. (Not in a sarcastic way at all). I don't have a scale that will measure 0.02 grains difference though.
I mean, that's the reason we do ladder tests to find the accuracy node correct? So we can even be more than 0.10 grains off and still keep the same POI.
Has anyone ever measured the difference in accuracy they've achieved getting to that level? I would love to test it sometime; loads within 0.10 grain vs 0.02 grain of measurement. I'm quite curious what that actually translates to on paper. (Not in a sarcastic way at all). I don't have a scale that will measure 0.02 grains difference though.
I mean, that's the reason we do ladder tests to find the accuracy node correct? So we can even be more than 0.10 grains off and still keep the same POI.
I use the gempro that does measure to the 0.02 of a grain. varget granules weigh about 0.02 reloader 15 and 4895 are a little less. With my omega electronic trickler it is easy to drop individual grains.
I have a chargemaster and when you think you are measuring to the tenth of a grain you can actually have a swing of 0.15 +/-. that means you are looking at a 0.30 swing. Same way with a balance scale that is calibrated to the 0.10. +/- 0.10.
now I totally agree with you on accuracy nodes being as much as 0.3 grains wide. I don't try to measure my powder charges to the nearest 0.02 grains but I do try to keep the variance to +/- 0.05 grains which gives me a 0.1 of a grain swing.
do I shoot well enough to see the difference. Well when I started measuring powder that accurately my average groups did shrink and my ES/SD shrank too!
It is really quite fast to drop charges with a powder measure and trickle on the gempro. Much faster and more accurate then a powder dispenser or balance scale.
totally depends on what you are trying to do. For standard hunting/target loads dropping charges with a powder measure is fast and plenty accurate enough. If you are trying to squeeze that last bit of accuracy out of a long range gun it may be worth it to you.
Absolutely easy with the Pact DPPS and DPP system. I hand filled and trickled the DPPS scale for years and finally bit the bullet and added the DPP Dispenser, just type in desired weight and hit the dispense button.
Powder Scale and Dispenser - PACT Shooting Products
Powder Scale and Dispenser - PACT Shooting Products
Sully2
Well-Known Member
You should prepared to invest a lot of time and money if you intend to prove anything to yourself one way or another. There are all sorts of items associated with load development that could inflict a greater affect on accuracy than the difference between 0.02 and 0.04gr or 0.2gr of powder. I don't believe a person could shoot enough groups in a lifetime, to ever identify a statistically supported benefit or detriment on paper from such small powder charge weights. Certainly not with larger case capacity cartridges packing larger powder charges often used for hunting large game at long ranges. My opinion is just as valid as yours, or anyone's. Because no one will ever document the difference in accuracy in a statistically valid manner from powder charge variance of +/-0.1gr.
I've read Sierra doesn't worry about these low powder weight discrepancies when test firing bullets they've manufactured on their bench mounted test firing equipment as part of their QA/QC protocols. I think they already know it's not a worthwhile effort, because otherwise, they'd ensure each load was charged within +/- 0.02gr. They don't because they clearly haven't seen any difference on paper. All they'd do is spend a lot of employee time and materials on an effort that would ultimately, not provide any conclusive findings one way or the other. Their bullets shoot better than most of us can off their test equipment with looser controls on powder charge weights than +/- 0.02gr. If you want to receive more information on this, send a Private Message to "Bart B". He researches this stuff all the time. I believe he'll tell you that even the most accomplished competitive shooters don't worry about controlling powder charge weights down to 0.02gr. If you think you have the need and the ability to shoot better groups than these guys, have at it. But there will still be other factors that will have a greater affect on your group sizes than controlling powder charge weights down to +/- 0.02gr.
I think the only reason to measure down to 0.02gr of powder is to satisfy convictions spawned from obsessive/compulsive disorder. Which is a great reason, if suffering from obsessive/compulsive disorder. I'm a little obsessive/compulsive myself, and I already feel the love from the others.
Well I didn't either. Used mine for almost a year before I got curious and bought a gempro 250 just to check and see. try it and see.
here is a link to someone who did besides me and there are plenty more out there
RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Review
Sully2
Well-Known Member
This guy talks out of both sides of his mouth...
"Accuracy with the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 is + or - one tenth of a grain. This has been verified with my balance beam scales. However, that accuracy is not possible with each charge when dispensing powder charges. You must re-weigh each charge to receive that " + or - 1/10 gr. accuracy. When watching the rotating tube as the charge nears its set weight I find that I can very often "call" a charge light, on or heavy by what I see tumble out at the very end of tube."
The chargemaster is capable of dropping charges of + or - 1/10 of a grain. And he verified it with his balanced beam scales.
BUT...that isnt possible when dispensing powder charges..??? (What is he dispensing then....pea gravel.???) You must re-weigh each charge to receive that + or - 1/10 grain accuracy.
So on one hand he says it can...and on the other he says you have to balance beam weight each one to get that accuracy.
Its the old it does but it dont thing.
I don't care to argue or care what you think
I know I have checked many charges from my chargemaster and they vary +/- 0.15 grains and some it really screws up. Now the chargemaster scale will read exactly what you programmed in but that won't be the weight of the charge. I used my chargemaster to drop charges and trickled on the gempro for a long time. I weighed a lot of charges during that time. I found a $25 powder measure was much faster than the chargemaster at dropping charges.
I have 2 gempro 250's sitting side by side. They drift and sometimes disagree but when they both agree I call it good.
I have a Ohaus 10/10 that has been tuned by scott parker. It is more accurate than the chargemaster but not as good as 2 gempro's sitting side by side.
Sully2
Well-Known Member
I still dont believe it!
