Powder or primer degradation

DWier

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May 16, 2019
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Does he by chance use a powder dispenser like a charge master or lymans version. I screwed up a few years ago and forgot to clean out the dispensers tube . Luckily as soon as I went to get a pan full of what should have been w748 it came out an imr powder. It could happen and I’m sure it has .
No he uses balance beam. Interestingly he said they shot fine but had a little smoke on the 2 in question. Those to primers were not penetrated. He measures OAL rather than CBTO. Don't know if you can measure CBTO on 22 cal but perhaps these two were jammed into the lands although bolt was not hard to close.
 

Beluebow

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Could be a long list of problems.....other than over pressure due to whatever.....I'll add another guess to the mix.

Pushed the shoulders back to far, creating excessive headspace causing pierced primers.
 

J E Custom

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To diagnose a problem, you have to start eliminating some one at a time. When repairing firearms, I always start with dimensional knowns that will tell me if anything is beyond specification. These are easy to verify and prevent chasing your tail. Guessing is a hit and miss method and can create more problems.

Check things that can be measured first then look for the subtle issues when the list is much smaller.

Opinions are the last thing I depend on (Even My Own). :)

J E CUSTOM
 

270jim

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I don't know about the 43 Winchester but the original 22 Hornet bore diameter was smaller than they are now. Don't know when the change was made either. Perhaps something to check out and then maybe have to use a smaller diameter bullet in that gun. I had a Uberti single shot that could not handle .224 bullets without the issue you have there. It had the old and they said current European bore diameter. Changing to .223 helped some but .222 would have been better.
 

David Urasky

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Didn’t make sense to me, but I inadvertently sized some 308 brass about .050” short and had the same problem. Seated the bullets long and fire formed the brass without an issue.

since it looks like a different brass, check the head space on some unaired brass.
 

skipglo

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Start with measuring the firing pin protrusion first. Measure the protrusion with the firing pin de- cocked. Some actions are hard to release the firing pin, so with a dowel or cleaning rod with a blunt jag, cock the firing pin and measure to the bolt/action face to the muzzle, with a washer and a pair of vice grips, (I use a locking collar on the rod flush with the muzzle) ,holding the rod against the action face with the washer, clamp the vice grips/ lock collar on the rod and clamp it to get the washer flat against the muzzle. Then snap the trigger releasing the firing pin without the rod against the firing pin, very carefully replace the rod back in the bore and using feeler gauges Measure the gap between the washer and the muzzle.

This is not very accurate, but it will tell you if your Firing pin protrusion is within the proper range. (I prefer .055 to .060 thousandths)

The best way to measure this is with a firing pin protrusion tool like this.

If you find out that the firing pin is within spec. Then look for primer, powder and head space problems exist.

None of the primers look smashed/flattened from pressure so I suspect it is piercing from to much protrousion.

J E CUSTOM
I was going to make a similar but far more layman comment because compared to you JE....that's what I am but with 56 years shooting experience....my answer was have a gunsmith replace the Spring.....lol
 

wonderman4

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With a powder as "slow" as IMR4227, it would be tough to get an over charge in the small Hornet case.

I have tried H4227 in the Hornet and velocities were not very exciting. Spice it up with either H110/WW296 or Lil'Gun, any where from 11-13 grains, but start low and work up.

With something like IMR4227 or H4227, case capacity becomes a problem.

I can get minute of turtle at 200 yds with the three powders that I mentioned.

Also, I switched to small pistol primers a few years ago and it got even better.

Just for the record, I have shot ammo that I loaded back in 1976 that shot as good as the day I loaded it.
 
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SmallHoles

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Jan 8, 2014
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A friend sent this and is asking advice. (I'm interested as well).
22 Hornet. 2 cases, top right, have deep firing pin strikes. I am wanting to blame on degrading powder as these were loaded in 2008. Your thoughts?

WSR primers, small rifle; 10.6 grains IMR 4227, and a 40 grain PSP .223 Hornady bullet. Rifle a Model 43 Winchester, 70 years old.
Any ideas?
What conditions were the loaded rounds stored in? I fired some .300 Wby Mag my stepdad loaded in the early 1980s a few years ago and it worked just fine; no pressure signs at all. The ammo was stored in an Indiana basement for 25 years, then in a garage in south Georgia for 10 years before I got it. Federal Large Rifle Mag primers, 82gr IMR 4831 with a 180gr Nosler Partition bullet.
 

buffalo boy

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Dec 19, 2014
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win 43 has rear locking lugs,case head separations are very common in 218 bee and hornet.When resizing,don't touch the shoulder. I could never get 4 reloads out of a case.also had to carry a stuck case remover when shooting.
 

DWier

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May 16, 2019
Messages
92
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Orlando, Florida
To diagnose a problem, you have to start eliminating some one at a time. When repairing firearms, I always start with dimensional knowns that will tell me if anything is beyond specification. These are easy to verify and prevent chasing your tail. Guessing is a hit and miss method and can create more problems.

Check things that can be measured first then look for the subtle issues when the list is much smaller.

Opinions are the last thing I depend on (Even My Own). :)

J E CUSTOM
He has already started. To answer an earlier question, no it is not all the same brass. I suspect it is overpressure likely bullet into the lands. Will start by measuring fired cases and shoulder length if possible. I'll report back.
 

DWier

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Orlando, Florida
I don't know about the 43 Winchester but the original 22 Hornet bore diameter was smaller than they are now. Don't know when the change was made either. Perhaps something to check out and then maybe have to use a smaller diameter bullet in that gun. I had a Uberti single shot that could not handle .224 bullets without the issue you have there. It had the old and they said current European bore diameter. Changing to .223 helped some but .222 would have been better.
I remember that. I'll find out what he used.
 

DWier

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May 16, 2019
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Orlando, Florida
What conditions were the loaded rounds stored in? I fired some .300 Wby Mag my stepdad loaded in the early 1980s a few years ago and it worked just fine; no pressure signs at all. The ammo was stored in an Indiana basement for 25 years, then in a garage in south Georgia for 10 years before I got it. Federal Large Rifle Mag primers, 82gr IMR 4831 with a 180gr Nosler Partition bullet.
South Georgia barn.
 

Canadian Bushman

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Jan 24, 2012
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Houston, Texas
He has already started. To answer an earlier question, no it is not all the same brass. I suspect it is overpressure likely bullet into the lands. Will start by measuring fired cases and shoulder length if possible. I'll report back.
There you go. Loading different brass with different internal volumes with the same powder charge would give you exactly what you have here.
 

ktaboga

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Oct 1, 2014
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Laramie, Wyoming
I ran into a similar problem with .243 ammo, which was reloaded by my dad and stored in a Pennsylvania basement 20 years or so earlier. Read about chemical welding of case mouth and copper jacket. When I went back and re-seated the bullets by a thousandth or so, I noticed that several of them felt like they "broke loose" during re-seating. No pressure problems after that. Of course these were 20-25 years old, not 12. But, worth a try?
 
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