D
Deleted member 112174
Guest
I didn't see the word Circassian mentioned...
Pork Swords and lightweight mountain rifles.
- Thread starter SavageHunter11
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
SavageHunter11
Well-Known Member
Uhh...what?
Sledhead406
Well-Known Member
I am almost finished with nearly the same build in 300BO with a 9" barrel in a MDT LSS gen2 chassis (the one with the short forend). The MDT uses AR buffer tube, stock (pistol brace) and pistol grip; all of which I had here in boxes. I do like the forend as a machined part of the chassis, instead of attached by pic rail. BUT I did have to inlet the forend about .375" to fit the suppressor.
https://mdttac.com/us_en/lss-chassis-system.html?___store=us_en
Was going to do 308, but decided on 300BO as it is not a long range rifle, and I can get about 2400fps with 110 Barnes Tac-TX.
https://mdttac.com/us_en/lss-chassis-system.html?___store=us_en
Was going to do 308, but decided on 300BO as it is not a long range rifle, and I can get about 2400fps with 110 Barnes Tac-TX.
Are Sbr's legal to hunt with in all/most states? You have to get ATF "permission" to take an sbr out of state too dont you? If you build as a pistol it could always be turned into a sbr at a later date i believe. Pistol receivers can be made into rifles as long as they meet the rifle legal requirements but not the other way around.
SavageHunter11
Well-Known Member
They are legal in my state of South Dakota, or maybe I should say there aren't any regulations against using them at this point in time.
Beachnmountains
Member
Those are neat. Seems to be more of these tiny rifles coming up. Thought the 8.6 CM train was going to be fun. Train is still at the station. These kind of look like a Q concept. Short rifles and silencers. I have a couple SBRs that are truck gun "ish". But to most of the crowd, disqualify as they are not as light as these.
I wish they would leave out the "stays supersonic out to 900 yards.". For the average shooter, seeing "remains supersonic out to 900 yards," they think the can harvest an animal at that distance. Ask 20 people what the speed of sound is and see how many know.
Saying something stays supersonic to a certain distance is only productive of serious long range shooter. Few bullets have performing(expansion) velocities below 1400 FPS. Realistically it is a 200 yard gun, which is still awesome.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
For hunting it would be a no go in colorado
Cant use any sort of pistol brace for hunting, and if you sbr'rd it you cant use an sbr or sbs for hunting either . You could go old old school and put a tennis ball or cane tip on the end of your buffertube
You could leave the barrel as 16" and then put a folding brace on the rifle-- no regs against that .
As far as atf laws regarding building a pistol.. if you buy a bare receiver or a pistol then you can build a pistol-- if you bought a rifle the only way to proceed would be to pay the fee and file for a form 1 sbr
Cant use any sort of pistol brace for hunting, and if you sbr'rd it you cant use an sbr or sbs for hunting either . You could go old old school and put a tennis ball or cane tip on the end of your buffertube
You could leave the barrel as 16" and then put a folding brace on the rifle-- no regs against that .
As far as atf laws regarding building a pistol.. if you buy a bare receiver or a pistol then you can build a pistol-- if you bought a rifle the only way to proceed would be to pay the fee and file for a form 1 sbr
Beachnmountains
Member
Wow, that is super unfortunate. There are other options out there for a ranch rifle or truck gun. Just hate when the laws get super tight like that for other choices.
This is exactly what made my mind up.
When you purchase a FFL serialized receiver only (not a complete rifle as a donor or one that has ever been a completed firearm) should not be designated as either a rifle or a pistol as it has not been barreled or become a completed firearm when its transfered to you at your ffl. It's not of any type yet hence 'other' designation. On the 4473 it should be marked as "other firearm". "Other Firearm" designation can become any of the legal configs and does not become one until it's a complete barreled firearm. You should always ask and check it before the transfer is run thru if thete is any question. Tech it should not effect you but it makes it more a PITA. It happened with some FFL incorrectly marking completed lowers with a stock as a rifle on the 4473. Its understandable but the ATF clarification letter clearly states until its barreled/completed its classification does not change.
You then can turn it into any legal type of firearm you wish. In many ways a pistol works better from a universal and carry config. It also depends on your states reg. But you can turn a pistol into a rifle and back. There is a reason for that rule as pistols have tighter restriction via age and configs where rifles are less. You have encore to thank or we would not even have the ability of pistol to rifle.
In many states you can have a pistol loaded in a vehicle especially if you have a CCW but not a rifle etc.
So many seem to like switch barrels (not my thing) but with it being a pistol you can switch from a 12" barrel and pistol brace to a 16"+ and a stock and back again if you choose. Its actually rather moot if you build it yourself as there is no offical record of it being either a pistol or rifle thus without seeing it or others testimony no way for them to know if it was first a pistol or rifle. That is also why you are required to be 21 to buy a ffl receiver regardless what its its traditionally used for. The tech rule of course is once its built one way that's its official form factor.
Another interesting thing with NFA SBR is if you convert it so its not an sbr its tech no longer an NFA weapon nor has to follow the restrictions. You are not required to notify atf nfa div to take it off directory list but it was recommended unless it was to be sold then it would be. Basically you can go from more restrictive to less and back but not the other way. The back and forth use to mainly apply to ARs as its so modular but that is no longer the case so....
Then you have the less that 16" barrel but over 26" oal but without a shoulder stock being just a "firearm" without pistol or rifle designation. My guess is that could be converted to a rifle and back but would need an official ATF letter for clarification. But based on that they both have the same fed level of use and restrictions of 18 etc it should follow. But as has been proven logic rarely is where many rules are born from.
As always never rely on some internet post make sure to invesigate and get confirmation for yourself.
You then can turn it into any legal type of firearm you wish. In many ways a pistol works better from a universal and carry config. It also depends on your states reg. But you can turn a pistol into a rifle and back. There is a reason for that rule as pistols have tighter restriction via age and configs where rifles are less. You have encore to thank or we would not even have the ability of pistol to rifle.
In many states you can have a pistol loaded in a vehicle especially if you have a CCW but not a rifle etc.
So many seem to like switch barrels (not my thing) but with it being a pistol you can switch from a 12" barrel and pistol brace to a 16"+ and a stock and back again if you choose. Its actually rather moot if you build it yourself as there is no offical record of it being either a pistol or rifle thus without seeing it or others testimony no way for them to know if it was first a pistol or rifle. That is also why you are required to be 21 to buy a ffl receiver regardless what its its traditionally used for. The tech rule of course is once its built one way that's its official form factor.
Another interesting thing with NFA SBR is if you convert it so its not an sbr its tech no longer an NFA weapon nor has to follow the restrictions. You are not required to notify atf nfa div to take it off directory list but it was recommended unless it was to be sold then it would be. Basically you can go from more restrictive to less and back but not the other way. The back and forth use to mainly apply to ARs as its so modular but that is no longer the case so....
Then you have the less that 16" barrel but over 26" oal but without a shoulder stock being just a "firearm" without pistol or rifle designation. My guess is that could be converted to a rifle and back but would need an official ATF letter for clarification. But based on that they both have the same fed level of use and restrictions of 18 etc it should follow. But as has been proven logic rarely is where many rules are born from.
As always never rely on some internet post make sure to invesigate and get confirmation for yourself.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 112174
Guest
I am teasing about the high tech options you listed. There is no Circassian Walnut mentioned. that used to be a selling point for rifles and shotguns-fine wood.
EyeDoc2020
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to post this for any that are curious. Just finished my Pork Sword build from one of the build kits from Black collar arms. The guys there are great to work with and everything is as promised. I ended up going with a 12" 6.5 CM carbon barrel on my own (virgin) Defiance action. The SB tactical folding braces are super backordered, so I put on a spare folding sig brace. Topped it with a Leupold Mark 5 HD and added an Area 419 brake. I'm getting 2414 fps with 140 gn ELD-M and it shoots sub MOA as far as I can shoot on my ranch (500 yds). It stays supersonic well past 1000 yds and has over 1000 ft/lbs of energy out to 550 yds. I love the integrated arca rail and shot the hog pictured off my tripod standing at 450 yds. Dropped it like a sack of potatoes. Gun is a little heavier than I anticipated and is just over 8 lbs with optic. I do like that I can fold it and it fits INSIDE my backpack. Overall, very happy and hats off to Black Collar Arms for a really cool concept.
On a side note, one of the cool things is that if your state has a pistol season, like Missouri does for whitetail, some states allow these. In states like CO, rifle and handguns are the same season, so there is no advantage.
mdc.mo.gov
On a side note, one of the cool things is that if your state has a pistol season, like Missouri does for whitetail, some states allow these. In states like CO, rifle and handguns are the same season, so there is no advantage.
MDC updates definition of handguns used for deer hunting
The regulation change does NOT ban any specific make or model of firearm.
mdc.mo.gov
Attachments
Last edited:
cohunt
Well-Known Member
Careful in CO-- the regs say "no stock or other attachment" on pistols...legally, folding braces on pistols are a no-no in CO per the cow email i got
sea2summit
Well-Known Member
nevermind
