Pls help with ideas for first yote rig; non-lead.

SumTingWong

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So, I've been reading and reading and reading about various coyote setups, including going through the entire "Let's see your coyote rifle!" thread, and realized that it's not healthy to do all that looking. Now I may have to build more than 1 rig!

I've always wanted a 22-250, and am primarily focused towards that chambering.

Since I overanalyze the crap out of everything, I'm going to itemize my list of concerns.
Before I start the list, one important piece of info, I'm in the People's Republic of Kalifornie, and therefore required to use non-lead.

1) I do NOT reload. I don't plan on rapid-firing at prairie dogs; mainly focusing on coyotes. What is the heaviest cartridge I should consider when determining needed twist?
I have deer rifles, and don't plan on using this for anything larger, so I'm guessing 55gr - 65gr is more than enough? I plan on shooting between 100 to 500 yds, with the vast majority of shots around 150 to 250.

2) After reading all I could about 22-250 and non-lead, I'm thinking 1:10 twist would be ideal for my situation. Thoughts?

3) I've always wanted an AR, and would love some input as to whether or not that will work in my situation.

4) Is it really beneficial to use a tripod with an AR in this situation? I was thinking it might be cumbersome to move from spot to spot.

5) What would be the recommended barrel lengths for either AR or standard rifle?

6) What would you recommend (brand/model) for OTC non-lead ammo that may have slightly conservative loading, so as to extend barrel life a bit?

7) I like the idea of using a silencer. Will that notably affect performance in this situation? Positives/negatives?

8) Recommendations for a company that may provide a complete setup like this, in the recommended twist? So far, the vast majority of builders I've seen sell 1:12 or 1:14.

Thanks for the help!
Feel free to add anything I may have missed.
 

SumTingWong

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Adding a post, since I can't edit...

After doing a LOT more reading, I realized that I'm in one of the few states where silencers are illegal, so that's out. Also, just realized why AR config is more suited to Wylde, than 22-250.

So, I'm going to have to get one of each!
 

DSheetz

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The 22-250- has been used for a lot of years as have others with good results . The things that mean the most to me is shot placement as well as bullet design and bullet speed . In the 22-250 and other 22 cal. rounds I am a fan of good quality Hollow point boat tail bullets . With a fast traveling bullet I have found that the distance to impact makes a difference in bullet performance thus I believe in good shot placement . I have had some fine bullets that at too close a distance didn't open up and just did a pass through and they did the same at too far a distance also so that is my reasoning for the H.P. bullets in the 22-250 . The older ones had a 1:12 twist rate so liked a lighter bullet weight I found that the 55 grain and lower worked well for me . In a 223 I load my own for the AR platform and like a 20 " 1:9 through 1;7 twist . For coyote , it's just me , I like a bolt action rifle but in todays world there are a lot of good A.R.'s being offered . For any of them I would think that a 20" barrel would be my choice there again that's just me . And today there are several frangible bullet manufactures , non lead pressed copper bullets to choose from . Most of the bullet manufactures build fine products now but finding them at this time may be the problem .
 

Ross1147

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It is going to be hard to find a 22-250 that doesn’t have a 12 or 14 twist unless it’s custom. A 224 Valkyrie or AR 223/5.56 will give you enough twist to stabilize a “heavier” mono/nonlead bullet. But, it being CA haven’t they castrated ARs as well? I know you can buy them still, but isn’t there a lot of restrictions on them?

I went through this dilemma 2 years ago when I moved back to San Diego. My 223 (bolt) couldn’t stabilize any non-lead I wanted to shoot. I know hammer makes good ones, but I’m not going to waste that $$ shooting squirrels out in the hills. Nosler makes a good cheaper non-lead BT, but at 35 grns I didn’t feel confident shooting yotes with it. So I stepped it up to a .243 cal round. Did a cheap build on a 6 Dasher and haven’t looked back.

I do see a lot of 224 Val on the shelves, so maybe that’s the route to go if you don’t reload? Go around to the local gun stores and see what they have. That should give you a direction to go. If you’re looking for a good store to go to shoot me a PM (assuming you’re in San Diego right now?). I’ll point you in a good direction.

Ryan
 
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SumTingWong

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It is going to be hard to find a 22-250 that doesn’t have a 12 or 14 twist unless it’s custom. A 224 Valkyrie or AR 223/5.56 will give you enough twist to stabilize a “heavier” mono/nonlead bullet. But, it being CA haven’t they castrated ARs as well? I know you can buy them still, but isn’t there a lot of restrictions on them?

I went through this dilemma 2 years ago when I moved back to San Diego. My 223 (bolt) couldn’t stabilize any non-lead I wanted to shoot. I know hammer makes good ones, but I’m not going to waste that $$ shooting squirrels out in the hills. Nosler makes a good cheaper non-lead BT, but at 35 grns I didn’t feel confident shooting yotes with it. So I stepped it up to a .243 cal round. Did a cheap build on a 6 Dasher and haven’t looked back.

I do see a lot of 224 Val on the shelves, so maybe that’s the route to go if you don’t reload? Go around to the local gun stores and see what they have. That should give you a direction to go. If you’re looking for a good store to go to shoot me a PM (assuming you’re in San Diego right now?). I’ll point you in a good direction.

Ryan

What part of SD you in? I'm in Scripps Ranch...

Ruger makes the "American" in a "Predator" model 22-250 that has a 1:10 twist, and apparently shoots well, according to several reviews. It might be fun one to pick as a "truck rifle."

Yep, ARs are legal if they are "featureless," meaning several omissions/changes. I can live with no silencer and no flash hider, but the grip requirements are less than desirable.

Here's a decent article on how to change one to be CA legal:

Thinking about getting a Rainier upper in Wylde. Just gotta find something acceptable for the grip.

My buddy just picked up a Mini 14, which is a semi-auto 5.56. Looks kinda like a regular rifle, just not quite right.

EDIT:
I just found this by accident:

That place is in La Mesa, and shows pics of ARs with full grips. ***? Gonna call them tomorrow as I've literally read over 20 sites showing those kind of grips as being illegal in CA. I'm hoping they know something I don't.
 
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Hecouldgoalltheway

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6mm arc.

I don't know how difficult copper factory ammo will be to find, since everything is impossible to find now, but it is everything you want and didn't know you needed.
 

Stewart2550

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What part of SD you in? I'm in Scripps Ranch...

Ruger makes the "American" in a "Predator" model 22-250 that has a 1:10 twist, and apparently shoots well, according to several reviews. It might be fun one to pick as a "truck rifle."

Yep, ARs are legal if they are "featureless," meaning several omissions/changes. I can live with no silencer and no flash hider, but the grip requirements are less than desirable.

Here's a decent article on how to change one to be CA legal:

Thinking about getting a Rainier upper in Wylde. Just gotta find something acceptable for the grip.

My buddy just picked up a Mini 14, which is a semi-auto 5.56. Looks kinda like a regular rifle, just not quite right.

EDIT:
I just found this by accident:

That place is in La Mesa, and shows pics of ARs with full grips. ***? Gonna call them tomorrow as I've literally read over 20 sites showing those kind of grips as being illegal in CA. I'm hoping they know something I don't.
You can't go wrong for the price of the Ruger American. For a stock rifle it can shoot. I have been using it for 2 years now and can say it works. I have done a few upgrades but I do like the 1-10 it allows me to shoot heavy and light.
 

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SumTingWong

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You can't go wrong for the price of the Ruger American. For a stock rifle it can shoot. I have been using it for 2 years now and can say it works. I have done a few upgrades but I do like the 1-10 it allows me to shoot heavy and light.

That is one sick stock! Which one is that, as i may have to do some upgrades ;)

Wish silencers were legal in CA...
 

Stewart2550

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SumTingWong

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It is a Boyd's At-One Thumbhole stock. They are good stocks for the price.

I was actually looking at that stock several months ago.

I had read many reviews saying it had to be light to heavily modified to fit.
Did you have any issues swapping?

How do you like the thumbhole version? Would you take that one again over the standard stock?
 

brcfo_outdoors

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The rifles in your original link are legal because you have to split the halves of the receiver to reload them.

The fin grips on the AR platform are tolerable when shooting off a tripod, which is what I recommend doing for coyotes. I also carry a shotgun and don't find it too cumbersome, but recommend good slings. I have also used a Swagger bipod but got rid of it. If you are building an AR for predator hunting all I would recommend is chamber it in the right caliber (larger than .223/5.56), make it a lightweight as possible, and put a good trigger in it. This has been my thrown together go to rig which I am retiring because I have been having some bad experiences with the lead free 55gr Barnes Vortx .223 ammo and want a heavier caliber in a bolt action because that is what I prefer.

Coyotes are tougher than anyone seems to give them credit for, so having that extra punch of 22-250 or a 6mm cartridge is beneficial if you are trying to be lethal and humane under less than ideal circumstances and using lead free ammo. Also because they are tough, and sometimes partially concealed by plants, a little extra speed and punch goes a long way in addition to good shot placement. It is frustrating thinking that you wounded one and then not being able to recover it because they didn't just drop on the spot. My preference is bang, flop, because if they run off they can be impossible to find.

Barnes, Hornady Outfitter and Superformance, and Remington Hog Hammer all come to mind as factory lead free loads.
 

SumTingWong

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Thanks for the detailed explanation. That's kinda why I wanted a 22-50 in the AR config, but I get that it's not popular because you can destroy barrels with repetitive shooting. I just wanted it in that config for a quick follow up shot, if one or more decided to come back my way.

BTW, I spoke with a local gun shop that sells ARs, and they state you have can have a pistol grip (without fin) if you have a maglock. The preferred brand they use is ARMAGLOCK. I watched a few vids, and they seem to have a method with can do quick mag change while complying with the rules for CA.

Any experience with the ARmaglock?
 

brcfo_outdoors

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You probably won't be burning through barrels too fast in CA.

I personally don't have any experience with locking devices since Raddlocks/Bullet Buttons were outlawed. I keep my guns featureless to avoid registrations and such.
 

Stewart2550

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I was actually looking at that stock several months ago.

I had read many reviews saying it had to be light to heavily modified to fit.
Did you have any issues swapping?

How do you like the thumbhole version? Would you take that one again over the standard stock?
I did a little sanding to free float the barrel and it fit great. I have both stocks, can't say I prefer one over the other. They are both nice stocks, the thumbhole allows you to get a really good grip on the rifle.
 

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