Please help me select a caliber/rifle!!!

[MudRunner2005]

Also, what is the maximum range at which the .308 is capable of taking deer? And possibly elk? This is, of course, assuming the shooter and rifle do their part. I'm thinking 600-800 and 400 or so, respectively

If you have a 24" heavy barreled .308 with 5R rifling & 11.25 twist, and you're shooting the Berger 210 VLD's at max load with Varget, you should be turning them up around 2,400 fps muzzle velocity. Which is what this load does out of my Rem 700 5R MilSpec 24" .308 Win.

I'd say with that load you should be good to kill deer up to around 850 yards, which (with my rifle and load) should still be traveling ~1,425 fps, and have ~947 ft lbs of energy...Which should be fine to kill deer sized game.

At 1,000 yards it has ~1,297 fps & ~785 ft lbs of energy.

 

[nubcake29]

I may get hung out here by a couple of parties, but I'm okay with that.

Many people on this site believe that it takes a higher end custom, or semi-custom gun to obtain the kind of accuracy needed for long range hunting/shooting. That is not necessarily the case, but as I said, some believe it.

I, for one, have found in my years of shooting that spending money on optics is much more important than spending money on the actual gun. I have three sub $500 dollar guns that all shoot 1/2 MOA or better. They all have $400 or more scopes on them though. In rifle and optics alone you can spend a good deal of money, so the sport is not cheap, even if you take the cheap route.

I appreciate SidecarFlip's posts, and I get his sense of humor, though there are several on this site who may not. He is a wealth of knowledge, and he is willing to help people. He has helped me in the past, so I wouldn't read too much into his post.

It is hard to find one rifle that will do everything, but for the list of things that you have given us I would agree with Mudrunner on the 7 RM. The 7mm's have a good selection of high BC bullets to chose from, and the 7 RM takes less powder than a lot of the larger magnums. Brass can be found, and Ammo is usually available at stores should you forget to bring your own on a trip.

Making the decision to get into reloading will help you to squeeze accuracy from your rifle. I have a 700 SPS in 7 RM that shoots one hole groups at 100 yards, and the best group that I have gotten out of it at 1000 yards is 6 inches. I have tried many different loads through the gun, some shot less than 1/2 MOA, some (mostly manufactured ammunition) have shot as large of groups as 3 MOA. Once you decide on a gun it just takes a lot of work to get it to shoot the way you want it to, and patience to find the loads that it likes.

You can get into a long range rifle with a lower end factory rifle, but you need to be prepared to do your part. From what I have gathered, it is much easier if you chose to go the custom route, though it will cost more. I'm like you, I don't have much money. I had to save for 2 years to buy the scope that is on my 7 RM.

Best of luck. I hope this helps, and I hope it helps to put a couple of fires out too!

Joe

Joe, Thanks for your reply. So you don't think the heavier barrel is worth downgrading from 7mm RM to .308, even though it will be used as a target gun for the majority of its life? (I get out to the range usually at least once per week.) the farthest target at my range is 803 yards. I was leaning toward the 7mm RM until I started thinking about practical range vs possible range and also recoil and price of ammo, and the fact that the one in .308 has the heavy barrel... Those are the factors that made me begin to lean toward the .308. From what I understand .308 can make 800 yard shots quite well, at least for targets if not large game. Convince me that I'm wrong

As far as optics go, I've been planning to put a Leupold Rifleman 3-12x40 on whichever one I buy. I've been saving a long time and I finally have the money for both scope and rifle.

 

[jkupper]

Joe, Thanks for your reply. So you don't think the heavier barrel is worth downgrading from 7mm RM to .308, even though it will be used as a target gun for the majority of its life? (I get out to the range usually at least once per week.) the farthest target at my range is 803 yards. I was leaning toward the 7mm RM until I started thinking about practical range vs possible range and also recoil and price of ammo, and the fact that the one in .308 has the heavy barrel... Those are the factors that made me begin to lean toward the .308. From what I understand .308 can make 800 yard shots quite well, at least for targets if not large game. Convince me that I'm wrong

As far as optics go, I've been planning to put a Leupold Rifleman 3-12x40 on whichever one I buy. I've been saving a long time and I finally have the money for both scope and rifle.

As far as barrel weight goes I added a fairly heavy muzzle brake to the end of my 7 RM, which does help. My gun is primarily for hunting, so I wanted the finished product under 12 pounds to hike around in the hills with. A heavier barrel is easier to hold on target, but I have found a system that works very well for me and my lighter barreled gun. It becomes a preference deal. My preference is to have a gun that I can practice with a lot, but still hunt with for days on end if I need to.

There is nothing wrong with the 308. I would love to get one someday! Looking at the muzzle velocities though between a 308 and a 7 RM it appears that the 308 will run below the bullet manufacturers minimum impact velocities at a closer range than the 7 RM will. If you are only shooting paper and steel then that may not matter. If you are hunting deer and elk it may be the difference between a 600 yard maximum range and an 800 yard maximum range.

I think part of that is what Sidecar was getting into when he talked about a "one for everything" rifle. I am happy with my RM, but I will be converting to a 7 STW when I shoot the barrel out on it because I am already starting to feel a little limited. This is another reason that a bunch of shooters on this sight like the 338 RUM, 338 EDGE, 338 EDGE AI, 338 LM, and other larger caliber magnums that can push a very heavy pill at or over 3000 fps.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Joe, Thanks for your reply. So you don't think the heavier barrel is worth downgrading from 7mm RM to .308, even though it will be used as a target gun for the majority of its life? (I get out to the range usually at least once per week.) the farthest target at my range is 803 yards. I was leaning toward the 7mm RM until I started thinking about practical range vs possible range and also recoil and price of ammo, and the fact that the one in .308 has the heavy barrel... Those are the factors that made me begin to lean toward the .308. From what I understand .308 can make 800 yard shots quite well, at least for targets if not large game. Convince me that I'm wrong

As far as optics go, I've been planning to put a Leupold Rifleman 3-12x40 on whichever one I buy. I've been saving a long time and I finally have the money for both scope and rifle.

Go with at better scope....Don't skimp on glass.

Atleast order one of these, the reticle will help you with hold-over and windage.

Vortex Viper HS Long Range Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6-24x 50mm Side Focus

I'd use this base:

EGW 1-Piece Heavy Duty Picatinny-Style Base Remington 700 Short Action

And these rings:

Vortex Precision Matched Picatinny-Style Rings Matte

 

[nubcake29]

Go with at better scope....Don't skimp on glass.

Atleast order one of these, the reticle will help you with hold-over and windage.

Vortex Viper HS Long Range Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6-24x 50mm Side Focus

I'd use this base:

EGW 1-Piece Heavy Duty Picatinny-Style Base Remington 700 Short Action

And these rings:

Vortex Precision Matched Picatinny-Style Rings Matte

**** I would love to but I don't see myself affording that baby without a small loan. I'm looking for one with better magnification though.

Thanks for all your help, mudrunner and joe, it's between the .308 and 7mm for sure but I probably won't decide till I get to the gun counter at cabelas tomorrow morning

 

[cohunter14]

Go with at better scope....Don't skimp on glass.

Atleast order one of these, the reticle will help you with hold-over and windage.

Vortex Viper HS Long Range Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6-24x 50mm Side Focus

I'd use this base:

EGW 1-Piece Heavy Duty Picatinny-Style Base Remington 700 Short Action

And these rings:

Vortex Precision Matched Picatinny-Style Rings Matte

Mud, unfortunately you just took his $200 scope to a $900 one, probably not going to work. Go with whatever you can afford to start with and eventually add on from there with the understanding that a $200 scope might not allow you to shoot that accurately at long range. However, if you have a $200 budget now that can extend to $300 (or more) with a couple extra months of savings, it might be worth looking into that and seeing if it is worth it. Every extra dollar you spend on your scope will be well worth it.

I agree with most everything else that has been said on here, but one suggestion I would make is to look at the SPS line of Rem 700's instead of the ADL's. It will save you more money down the road by not having to convert to a BDL setup. I also disagree that you will HAVE to true the action at some point. Hell, you might not ever even have to replace the stock or trigger. You never know what you are going to get out of a stock rifle. But I would get an SPS and go from there. You can eventually replace the stock if needed (the factory one is not great), but the stock trigger might even work okay for you as you should be able to tune it to 3-3.5lbs on your own.

As for caliber, I would look at 7rm, 300wm, or even 300rum, although if you go the rum route, you will definitely want to be reloading. However, those three calibers will meet your yardage requirements when it comes to elk, and the rum would really make it so you could stretch your limits. Good luck!

 

[MMERSS]

The animals in the links below were taken with a factory 700 Sendero later custom fitted with a match barrel, Jewell trigger and trued action. Not too expensive for a long range hammer. Use the factory Sendero for practice then custom after you have the experience.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f116/mt-huntress-bags-1107-yard-6x6-bull-123872/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/rl-33-first-blood-122542/

 

[nubcake29]

Mud, unfortunately you just took his $200 scope to a $900 one, probably not going to work. Go with whatever you can afford to start with and eventually add on from there with the understanding that a $200 scope might not allow you to shoot that accurately at long range. However, if you have a $200 budget now that can extend to $300 (or more) with a couple extra months of savings, it might be worth looking into that and seeing if it is worth it. Every extra dollar you spend on your scope will be well worth it.

I agree with most everything else that has been said on here, but one suggestion I would make is to look at the SPS line of Rem 700's instead of the ADL's. It will save you more money down the road by not having to convert to a BDL setup. I also disagree that you will HAVE to true the action at some point. Hell, you might not ever even have to replace the stock or trigger. You never know what you are going to get out of a stock rifle. But I would get an SPS and go from there. You can eventually replace the stock if needed (the factory one is not great), but the stock trigger might even work okay for you as you should be able to tune it to 3-3.5lbs on your own.

As for caliber, I would look at 7rm, 300wm, or even 300rum, although if you go the rum route, you will definitely want to be reloading. However, those three calibers will meet your yardage requirements when it comes to elk, and the rum would really make it so you could stretch your limits. Good luck!

The adl varmint has every feature I can think of the sps varmint does, except the stock is crappier which is a non issue since I'll be replacing the stock regardless. The adl varmint has features the other adl's don't like the xmark pro instead of regular and a hinged mag floor plate. The action, barrel, bottom metal, and trigger are the same on the adl varmint and the sps varmint as far as I can tell. That considered I will look into the sps a little closer, see if I like what I see. If i go with the one in 7mm RM it doesnt have those features so i may go with the sps. Thanks again

 

[jkupper]

Another suggestion, just FYI. You could buy the gun now, and start working on load development, if you have another scope to put on the gun. Meanwhile, you could save up for a little better piece of glass. That is what I did and it worked out well.

You can save some money and see if the factory gun will shoot with the factory stock (I know, not as pretty, but cheaper).

I also disagree with HAVING to get the action trued. I will when I convert mine, but I haven't yet, and it shoots very well.

This group is from my gun, a stock Remington 700 SPS in 7RM. Completely stock!

Best of luck!

 

[cohunter14]

The adl varmint has every feature I can think of the sps varmint does, except the stock is crappier which is a non issue since I'll be replacing the stock regardless. The adl varmint has features the other adl's don't like the xmark pro instead of regular and a hinged mag floor plate. The action, barrel, bottom metal, and trigger are the same on the adl varmint and the sps varmint as far as I can tell. That considered I will look into the sps a little closer, see if I like what I see. If i go with the one in 7mm RM it doesnt have those features so i may go with the sps. Thanks again

I think you are wrong as far as the hinged floor plate...ADL's are ADL's, meaning a blind mag box (no hinged floor plate). Not that it's a big deal, but to convert to a BDL style down the road, it will cost money. The SPS is the BDL style, which is why I suggested it. Here is the Remington page on the ADL Varmint: Model 700 ADL Varmint

 

[MudRunner2005]

**** I would love to but I don't see myself affording that baby without a small loan. I'm looking for one with better magnification though.

Thanks for all your help, mudrunner and joe, it's between the .308 and 7mm for sure but I probably won't decide till I get to the gun counter at cabelas tomorrow morning

If you're scope is on a tight budget, and you need a good scope with high magnification for a low price, I recomment one of these. I have one, and am fixing to buy another one for my .308 Win range gun. It used to be on my .308, but I needed a high magnification scope for load development for my 7mm STW, so I simply swapped it off one rail, and onto the other. I have my 3 main .308 Win loads already developed, so I will be ordering another scope for it, so I can go to the range and shoot it more often.

Konus M-30 Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 8.5-32x 52mm 1/10 MIL

Same rail as before:

EGW 1-Piece Heavy Duty Picatinny-Style Base Remington 700 Long Action

These rings are little cheaper than the Vortex/Seekens rings, but they are just as good a quality.

TPS 30mm TSR Picatinny-Style Aluminum Rings Matte Low

 

[MudRunner2005]

Another suggestion, just FYI. You could buy the gun now, and start working on load development, if you have another scope to put on the gun. Meanwhile, you could save up for a little better piece of glass. That is what I did and it worked out well.

You can save some money and see if the factory gun will shoot with the factory stock (I know, not as pretty, but cheaper).

I also disagree with HAVING to get the action trued. I will when I convert mine, but I haven't yet, and it shoots very well.

This group is from my gun, a stock Remington 700 SPS in 7RM. Completely stock!

Best of luck!

I was talking about during the rebarreling process while it's at the smith... I wasn't talking about truing it up immediately, unless it just won't shoot. In which case, having the smith true up the action and the factory heavy barrel with a better recoil lug should help it shoot tremendously better, especially with an aftermarket aluminum bedded stock.

I have 4 700's currently able to be shot (and a couple projects in the works)...3 of which are completely stock the way they left the factory (2 have HS stocks from the factory and the 3rd has a B&C Medalist). 1 of them won't shoot...The others will shoot flawlessly.

Not all factory 700's will shoot perfect out of the box, is all I'm saying. I am as big a 700 fan as anyone else, but facts are facts.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Nubecake- First of all i think id go with the 7rm. Fantastic long range hunting cartridge. My dad has one and my grandfather has 2 and they have some serious hitting power. As far as a scope goes have you ever heard of a Weaver Super Slam? Ive heard good stuff about this scope and if you get the 3-15x42 scope then your lookin at around $450 or so. Im not sure what your budget is for a scope. I intend putting this scope on my next rifle. As far as the rifle goes the remmy isnt a bad choice. Savage makes a pretty good gun i just dont like the looks. But the remmy is definitely more upgradable.

 

[bigngreen]

This is my opinion, find a Savage 308 and work from there, frankly your going to be spending a lot of money as you extend your range and you'll be able to shoot the 308 cheap till you get set up for reloading and generally speaking you should be able to find a good box ammo for it since there are tons of 308 choices.

As your skills progress past the 308 YOU can spin on a top shelf pre fit barrel in a more capable chambering, more savings that you can spend on better glass. The Savage is thee most customizable platform for the dollar. My first original long range set up has been a 270 WSM, 300 RUM, 7 RUM, several 338 RUMs and is currently a 6.5 SS all on the same stock, action and a lowly B&C stock that I rebuilt with a belt sander.