Plastic tipped bullets. Soldering iron test. ELDX is indeed improved...

I think one would be a fool to have a completely closed mind on the matter. Like Aaron said, it wasn't long ago when we knew the world was flat. But if you want to take every theory and study as 100% gospel, don't let me stop you. I'll always take heat and flame to have an open mind and ask about all the potential contributing factors. Right or wrong, at least I have the balls to do that.

I think if you follow the link below, there is at least some evidence that the firing process can possibly play a role. Notice the temp of the tip "just out of the muzzle". Yes the tips are a better insulator than conductor but it will still suffer with enough heat. Regardless, its difficult for anybody to prove with exacting results.

If you think that firing does the tips any favors, or doesn't at least contribute to the problem, then yes, I'd say you're presumptuous.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/hornady-eld-x-bullets-161441/index7.html

Michael,
Are you adding fool to presumptuous? And I'm the one arguing? You've claimed to possess open mindedness as a virtue, but display the opposite. Perhaps you meant you're open minded to like minded posts/statements. Read your own posts in search of open mindedness to my statement that "conductive heat transfer from heat applied to the base of a plastic tip will not heat the leading surface of the plastic tip over the short duration of bullet flight". If that statement means I'm arguing, and if that statement is a source of heat and flame, then I suggest a more open mind.

Say we forget about the science of conductive heat transfer. After all Hornady has done to research plastic tips, and then present their research, findings, and explanation of the cause and solution to the problem, would they not state that heat conducted from the core of the bullet to the bullet tip during time of flight was a contributing factor to plastic tip BC decay? Not a single statement. The thermal image of a bullet provides no statement of opinion or fact. Compare that to their effort stressing the heat from friction between bullet and air.

You've stated it makes no difference one way or the other. Then why the uncomplimentary adjectives and the pursuit of argument in response to my statement. You disagree with me. I get that. And I disagree with you. Yet I never alleged you were presumptuous to think you had a better understanding than Hornady expressed. I never alleged you were foolish for your thoughts and statements. And I never alleged you were closed minded, until you demonstrated it in these posts.
 
Paul,

I'll be honest, I didn't read much of your last post. I really have no desire to argue with you. Say what you wish, bash me all you wish. You're right, I'm wrong. I apologize for being presumptuous in thinking you are presumptuous. Like I said, there are other threads worthy of arguing and bickering. This one isn't. Please move on.

M out.
 
If your dog in this fight just wants to argue, there are plenty of other threads worthy of arguments. This one really isn't worth it and there's really nothing to argue about.

I made a statement. You shouldn't describe that as, or confuse that with, an argument. A open mind understands the difference. An open mind allows others to express different thoughts, beliefs, explanations, and opinions. There were a number of members that expressed themselves on this matter, including me. You didn't tangle with any members agreeing with your thoughts/posts. Only me. So explain that.
 
I think the new ELD bullets are an improvement regardless of how the melting takes place... what I want to know is when will they put the new tip on the Superformance cartridge... When you compare the Superformance sst against the new ELDX, the Superformance still shoots flatter because of its higher muzzle velocity. It seems like a natural next improvement... I hope they do it! I have been hunting with the Superformance since it came out and had nothing but great success on elk and deer. If the new tip makes the Superformance more accurate on longer shots > 500 yards, that would be very nice.
 
I think the new ELD bullets are an improvement regardless of how the melting takes place... what I want to know is when will they put the new tip on the Superformance cartridge... When you compare the Superformance sst against the new ELDX, the Superformance still shoots flatter because of its higher muzzle velocity. It seems like a natural next improvement... I hope they do it! I have been hunting with the Superformance since it came out and had nothing but great success on elk and deer. If the new tip makes the Superformance more accurate on longer shots > 500 yards, that would be very nice.
Did you Chrony the Superformance load?
 
No... I went by the charts on the Hornaday website... the drop for the ELD appears to be what a regular Hornady cartridge is and the Supreformance is significantly less. It would be nice to get the higher velocity and flatter trajectory and the more stable tip for tighter groups at the same distance.
 
personally I think these claims are a bunch of booze. I just got their catalog last night and read about their claims. They state that the melting occurs after 400yds. Well? My bullets velocity at that point has decreased by 500fps from 2765 to 2244 fps. And gets slower still beyond that. If these tips were going to melt the greater friction is experienced right after existing the barrel. NOT 400+yds later. It just doesn't add up. Oh... They don't state what velocities that cause this melting either. Maybe with a . 22-250 @ 4000fps they melt but I don't see this @,2000 or less. Just my opinion.

Later...
 
That is an interesting observation... it certainly is reasonable to think that your bullet is slowing as it travels a longer distance... the most deformation of the tip should happen at shorter distances and not longer ones... A good question for them to address. Thanks
 
It takes a little time for the air friction to raise the temperature of the plastic tip to the melting point. It's not instantaneous.
 
personally I think these claims are a bunch of booze. I just got their catalog last night and read about their claims. They state that the melting occurs after 400yds. Well? My bullets velocity at that point has decreased by 500fps from 2765 to 2244 fps. And gets slower still beyond that. If these tips were going to melt the greater friction is experienced right after existing the barrel. NOT 400+yds later. It just doesn't add up. Oh... They don't state what velocities that cause this melting either. Maybe with a . 22-250 @ 4000fps they melt but I don't see this @,2000 or less. Just my opinion.

Later...
One name for it is heat soaking. Not all the heat is coming from air friction. Some of, probably most of, the heat is coming from the bullet body. Powder burn and friction heat the projectile. At 400 yards we are looking at .400 to .500 of a second.

Turn on you stove or iron and hold your finger there for .5 second.
 
After comparing the two bullets, the 208 Amax and 208 ELD. They are identical with the exception of the tips. The BC is significantly higher with the ELD-M, and the only difference is the tip... This tells me the tip is melting... I have no reason not to believe Hornady, minus actually testing them when the weather breaks...
 
One name for it is heat soaking. Not all the heat is coming from air friction. Some of, probably most of, the heat is coming from the bullet body. Powder burn and friction heat the projectile. At 400 yards we are looking at .400 to .500 of a second.

Turn on you stove or iron and hold your finger there for .5 second.

Man I wish we had a like button...
 
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