Paying for load Development

Boatninja

Active Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
37
Location
South Texas
I am the same as a previous poster, have good loading equipment but not a lot of experience, following directions and not pushing the limits. I have developed loads for a couple of my guns, those rifles pretty much followed the directions and I developed good shooting loads. I have one rifle that was being problematic, I just couldn’t get a load to work, sent Copper Creek chamber info and a couple hundred dollars and three trips to the range later I have a great shooting load. Well worth the investment in time savings. This is mainly a hunting rifle so accuracy much past 400-500yds isn’t essential. I haven’t stretched it out past 200 yds yet and will post later on longer range accuracy.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
11
Location
Hermosa, South Dakota
No, you did not manufacture that ammunition, totally legal to resell. Some confusion in this thread over charging for load dev and the requirements needed for actually selling handloads. You can buy a rifle and the seller can throw in a couple boxes of handloads, but if he invoices that ammo and charges for it, he has broken the law if he is not a Class 6 or 7 FFL holder.
Thanks for the clarification. I would never make ammo regardless of having an FFL or not...the liability for another person's actions just isn't worth it.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
11
Location
Hermosa, South Dakota
And miss out on all the fun. Never. But then I’m retired and have lots of free time. Some load to shoot, I shoot to load. I currently have 9 rifles in load development and couldn’t be happier. My reloading room is a sad place when all the ammo cases are full.
Ain't that the truth!!! A bunch of full ammo boxes is like the worst feeling.
 

QSYB1

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
15
Location
Lubbock, TX
Most of the guys I know that do it charge $300-500 depending on the ease of loading and price of components (magnum $ > creedmoor $). For that you get a test of 1-3 different bullets, maybe a couple of powders. You send them the rifle and they do all the work. I just don't have the time to do it all myself even though it is enjoyable. Maybe in a few years when I win the lottery I can devote time to that side of the hobby.
 

Matt_C

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
10
Location
Texas
I used Copper Creek Ammo a couple of times just to see what they offered. You might check their website for pricing and how they work up and charge for that service.
I used Copper Creek process on a 7mm-08 Tikka I bought close to deer season last year. Outstanding accuracy. Normally I'll do the load development on my own guns cause I like it.
 

milo-2

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Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
1,045
Location
Gillette, Wy
Ain't that the truth!!! A bunch of full ammo boxes is like the worst feeling.
You haven't loaded long enough then. lol Yes, having a load that shines brings satisfaction, but after 34 yrs, it is a job today, and i have never been that happy in any job I was paid to do, so no pay, no joy.
 

milo-2

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Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
1,045
Location
Gillette, Wy
Ain't that the truth!!! A bunch of full ammo boxes is like the worst feeling.
I may have made fun of your statement, but I have an AMP annealer, V3 powder system, Giraud trimmer, 3 chargemasters, 3 Forster coax's, one for portable use only, T7 Redding for big jobs, lol, 3 giant thumblers tumbler cleaners, and on and on. The joy i get from my investment today is miniscule. Sorry, I wish I could still drink beer, it was easier.
 

Ranger1994

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
24
Location
North Carolina
If a friend or Aquaintance purchases all the components on my advice and then gives them to me to load, and then gifts me a $200 gift card are we breaking the law? This is a interesting topic for sure as some of us help folks out all the time. I just want to be sure....
Not to sure how many lawyers we have on this site.
 

SteelBanger

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Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
257
Location
IL
All good, but your liability status changes when you become one "in the business". You are now held to similar liability standards as are other "professionals".... IF he follows your advise, yet has a problem, hum!!
Your point is plenty valid. If you develop only a load recipe (not selling the manufactured ammo) for someone and charge for that service, I imagine you're opening yourself up to some kind of liability. Even if you fully document your process and safe recipe within normal charge ranges, if the gun owner screws it up somehow and loses a couple digits or an eye things can turn on you pretty quick.

It's for this reason that I will never charge someone for this sort of thing. Like I originally said I have helped a friend develop a load for his rifle but he only paid me back for the components used. Even still I feel a little uneasy about doing that, you never know what can go wrong and I'd hate to be the cause of someone else getting hurt.
 

huntintoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
89
Location
Kanab, Utah
for almost 3 months I loaded for a .243 and could not find a <.5" group, different powders and bullets. Spent about $500 on powder primers and bullets. Relayed my frustrations to a friend who told me about a guy on a close by town that would develop a load for about $450.
The next set I tried grouped on top of each other.
Never give up, Never Never give up!!
 

remingtonman_25_06

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Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
2,279
Location
Hermiston, Oregon
A lot of people dont have the equipment, time, place, or knowledge to develop a consistent load and set it up at LR. It is a quality service that you pay for, as with most anything in life. If you dont feel comfortable loading for someone else, kinda makes me wonder if you even know what you're doing to begin with. Rifles dont just typically blow up with handloads, especially if one knows what they're doing...
 

milo-2

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Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
1,045
Location
Gillette, Wy
I have and still do help develop loads, and load ammo for select people, never charge. To me, it is about the other person.
One story sticks out though, about 5 yrs ago, facebook groups were big, esp LR shooting groups, one was Wyoming Long Range Shooters, fantastic bunch, knowledge was shared and passed, general info, and pure unadulterated ridicule, my kind of group.
One day, a member pipes up, I have this LRI built 243, shoots fantastic, but I think I am over max on my charge, then posts his data. Bam, he gets bombarded with whoa, pump the brakes gordon, don't fire another rd. It was 44gr of H4350 with a 105 hybrid. So he asks a poster, "do you have time to help me", big fat "no, out of town all summer working, but milo has more time than God". Oh boy, here we go, now others are offering up my services.
Now I am tagged in the post, so I pm the guy, we chat, I crunch numbers off his parameters in quickload, yes, you may be over charged. So we make arrangements, be here at 8 am, 15 loaded rds, 10-15 fired rds, 30 prepped and primed cases, bullets, powder and seat die. We chat again when he gets here, look things over, devise a plan. He did not own a chrono, so we will chrono and group his charge, load some rds for alternate load and shoot a ladder at 500 yards, see if we can find something suitable. We do that, jump in PU and head south to the proving grounds We paint some steel, use a template of a crosshair that matches a MOAR reticle at 500 on some bigger steel. I throw the magneto on, of coarse he has no dope, so I make a profile in a phone to get us close. He gets on a plate at 500 with magneto on, running 3175fps, 26" barrel. I tell him, probably a little warm, how are you shooting, feel you can knock a group out at 500, yes. He proceeds to shoot a 3 shot 1.5" group at 500, tough act to follow for sure, plus his brass does not look beat up.
After a cool down, we shoot a ladder at 500, with 41.0 to 42.5gr charges, we are in the zone. I tell the guy, let's go back, load 40 rds of 42gr, i can tell, he has seat depth nailed, should be easy. Get back, he has to go retrieve brass and more bullets, close to lunch also, I ask if he could eat a sammich, yes. He leaves, I mess around, send the little woman out for burgers, it all times out. We load 40 rds, head back south, first we need to verify this is going to work, bingo, 1" group at 500, we chrono, comfy 3075 fps, happy camper.
I ask if he has ever banged steel, nope, so I adjust the app, get a solid zero, with my help he connects 1st rd impacts to 800, floundered at 900, and got hits at 1K. I did my job, and felt good.
Later that night, he posts up that milo got things squared up, rah, rah, rah, I did feel good.
All good, but 3-4 days later he posts up, load is great, but I think I can run it faster. Duh, not think, you know you can, but i will tell you, I was ticked, I wasted close to 7 hours, gas, and lunch money for this. I honestly could not believe it, we toned his load into spec, shrunk his group size, but now he is going back. I told him he had wasted a lot of resources for this.
3 mos later he pms me again, can you help with my 308, 2 shots and a flyer. Reluctantly, I said sure, told him to bring rds and come by, we will go shoot. I was lucky this time, first thing I did was check his action screws, loose, I give them the fat wrench treatment and go to the gun club and shoot. problem solved.
For me, it's the person, not coin, nor the satisfaction, you will be vetted before you set foot in my garage for help today.
 

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