Pass through or Expended in Target?

[sp6x6]

Yes thats when I new it was on timmer.I tried checking one out another time like that to see if he was a 6by,as he left Saw he was a good one,too late

 

[Canhunter35]

I've also seen where a frangible bullet that wasn't placed in the best spot has actually saved our butts. The one instance I can think of is my sister shot a buck at about 200 yards with a 140 amax. The buck was quartered to her alittle and didn't realize it. With the path that bullet was going it was going to be all gut shot. But when that bullet hit it hit a rib and the bullet started to rapidly expand and it Sent bullet fragments into the lungs and he only went 80 yards and was done. A bullet that held together that would've ended very differently I have a feeling. I dont remember now if any of that bullet exited.

Exactly. I've actually found frangible bullets with a larger wound channel more forgiving than a smaller wound channel and guaranteed exit. I also pick big enough bullets that I'm not concerned with hitting bone.

 

[lancetkenyon]

That's mighty fast for a 308 with 230 grain bullet. It ought to kill him if it just comes close.

.308 is the caliber. .300RUM is the cartridge that shoots it.
And yeah, even if you miss, the vacuum the bullet creates as it passes by body slams the animal to the ground, and crushes internal organs.

Glassed him up from 1650+ yards.

30 minutes of light left in a 10 day hunt...bull is dead up in the white open patch on the hill at the right side of photo after getting within 432 yards and him standing up and moving 20 yards.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Right. Tuck it in behind the point of the shoulder.

That's funny. .308 230 Hybrid at 3113. Faster than the 175 SMK at an astounding velocity.

.308 is a caliber. Not a cartridge designation.
The 175 SMK was a reduced load in a .300RUM for my 11 year old daughter on her first bull elk hunt.

Bull can be seen down, just above the pointed stick in front of shooter on the far ridge.

 

[Michael Eichele]

The most important thing for me is to NOT have a pencil through. I've seen perfect lung shots and game survived much longer than it should and with no appreciable blood loss. They're easy to loose and easy to never recover. The high horse members always scream it's only shot placement that matters. While it might be the highest priority, it's only true that it's the only thing that matters if it's a CNS impact. For the boiler room, expansion is very important. I tolerate explosive results in certain species but prefer mushroom and a pass through for everything. All things considered, those have made for the quickest and cleanest kills. At least for me.

 

[jarnold37]

I think that hydrostatic shock is what is to be considered of utmost importance. One deer season I arrowed a deer with 1 1/2" broadhead, leaving a big hole in and out through the lungs, with the arrow stuck 3" in ground on other side. The deer looked up as if trying to determine what the noise was. The deer then slowly walked away and went 200 yards, leaving a blood trail from both sides. No hydrostatic shock. My wife shot a deer with a 22-250 and it dropped. Entrance hole left the rib cage terribly blood shocked. It has been stated that when there is blood shock, it is like stomping on a garden hose and the hose splits a distance of the hose. When the animal experiences this, it is complete loss of blood to the brain. I also shot a deer with a 250 grn in a 338 ultra mag. Pass through and tracked a blood trail 410 yards. No hydrostatic shock. Have shot many deer with a 125 thin jacketed bullet at 4050 fps muzzle velocity and have seen that a hit almost anywhere drops the deer in its tracks; hydrostatic shock. If a bullet has 1500 ft lbs of energy and passes through, there could be 1000 ft lbs of energy passing through with the bullet. I shot a deer with a big for the caliber bullet, and it passed through and hit a deer standing behind it, and the deer behind dropped, with the intended deer running 180 yards. Second deer absorbed all of the remaining energy where as the intended deer absorbed little. Hydrostatic shock.

 

[tooth doc]

Someone posted this again today and it made me think maybe we should discuss it again.



Now 50 years ago this was the "standard" by which people pretty well went in desirable terminal performance with most game and most bullets.

Even well into the late Eighties and Nineties this was probably still the dominant thinking at least here in N. America.

That however has never been the standard for game, particularly big game hunters in the rest of the world.

The theory of course was that if the bullet never exited all of it's energy was imparted to the target which would make for the cleanest and most humane kill. I'm not positive but I think Jack O'Connor was probably responsible for this becoming the dominant mindset in N., American and particularly the US.

What we've learned though over the years however is that a single hole doesn't usually produce a whole lot of a blood trail ant bullets that pass through completely show to do more damage overall when examining wounds not to mention much better blood trails to follow.


What is your preference, your experience and why? Pictures are welcome but on this computer I don't have any to share although I have shared many here over the years in prior threads.

Now let's see if I can get a poll working right?

i am for pass through. almost lost a great warthog last april in the tall grass because of no blood trail. 28 nosler, 195 gr berger, beautiful low center of shoulder shot at 250 yds, no pass through. pig bolted into the tall elephant grass. only found because of a good dog. guide felt i had missed. pig only went about 40 yds, heart and both lungs were blown up. the berger kills, no doubt but in this instance wished it was a barnes.

 

[WildRose]

I think that hydrostatic shock is what is to be considered of utmost importance. One deer season I arrowed a deer with 1 1/2" broadhead, leaving a big hole in and out through the lungs, with the arrow stuck 3" in ground on other side. The deer looked up as if trying to determine what the noise was. The deer then slowly walked away and went 200 yards, leaving a blood trail from both sides. No hydrostatic shock. My wife shot a deer with a 22-250 and it dropped. Entrance hole left the rib cage terribly blood shocked. It has been stated that when there is blood shock, it is like stomping on a garden hose and the hose splits a distance of the hose. When the animal experiences this, it is complete loss of blood to the brain. I also shot a deer with a 250 grn in a 338 ultra mag. Pass through and tracked a blood trail 410 yards. No hydrostatic shock. Have shot many deer with a 125 thin jacketed bullet at 4050 fps muzzle velocity and have seen that a hit almost anywhere drops the deer in its tracks; hydrostatic shock. If a bullet has 1500 ft lbs of energy and passes through, there could be 1000 ft lbs of energy passing through with the bullet. I shot a deer with a big for the caliber bullet, and it passed through and hit a deer standing behind it, and the deer behind dropped, with the intended deer running 180 yards. Second deer absorbed all of the remaining energy where as the intended deer absorbed little. Hydrostatic shock.

There's only a complete loss of blood to the brain when the BP hits 0/0.

There's lots of ways we can cause that. Hydrostatic shock can certainly be one of those but so is a hole right through the heart or aorta.

Shot placement is the single biggest factor but right next to it is picking the right bullet for the job, shooting it at a range that gives it the desired impact velocity, and of course, the bullet performing as designed and intended.

If one is married to a particular type of bullet, then respect that bullet's limitations, and put it where it needs to be.

 

[VLD Pilot]

For me, my most memorable DRT kills have been when the bullet does not exit but is found on the opposite side of the animal just under the hide. Seems they take all the energy and it shows when the bullet makes contact. Most have been broadside just behind the shoulder or even ON the shoulder but always recovered the bullet in the hide opposite shoulder. I've shot some big whitetails facing me dead center higher brisket, same DRT result but could not find the bullets. Never exited but just couldn't recover it. Most times they were Nosler Partitions.

 

[unclebob]

I guess I don't care either, but.... 43 deer and only one pass through. That was a head shot on a bedded deer. The other 42, the perfectly mushroomed bullet was a bulge in the hide on the far side. Only two took a step after being hit and they fell within sight. I've been lucky. Only deer I've tracked were buddy's deer that had pass throughs.
I try to be careful where I hit them and I have no business taking a shot over about 200. Never hunted anything centerfire but deer as far as game goes.
Edit: Do I lose my LRH badge for admitting I shouldn't be shooting over 200 offhand?

Sounds like you are a good shot, would you mind saying what cartridge, bullet weight, and muzzle velocity? Sounds like you are getting the results that I would like to have. Thanks

 

[VLD Pilot]

I've shot numerous deer with tipped match bullets and all have dropped on the spot with some at very long ranges. All hit behind the shoulder mid rib cage area. Entrance and exit holes with destruction in between unlike any other bullets. These work great but not sure how well they'd do on direct shoulder hits. I'm guessing not 100% reliable. I prefer keeping them in softer tissue.

 

[unclebob]

In a long quest for finding a perfect hunting bullet, I came across Hornady's SST, in 165 gr. It amazes me how quickly these bullets dump their energy upon impact. I shoot a 300 Win Mag. I developed a (hot) load for my rifle and shot a great buck from about 50 yards in 2020 with it. He took off after the hit and did about 300 yards before I lost the visual. It took me a long time to track him and I was getting convinced I had missed. I'm into long range shooting, so missing this kind of target from this kind of distance was driving me insane... I had no high shoulder shot (my default) chance, so I hit the heart/lungs. The bullet stayed inside after obliterating his lungs and heart. There were no blood signs at all, no exit wound. It was his white belly that accidentally revealed his location from a distance, where he was dead. In 2021, I loaded heavier, 180 gr SST bullets and hit a doe from 108 yards. Same story; she collapsed some 150 yards away, and again, it took me a while to find her. There were some minor blood marks from the entry wound, which helped. She had no heart nor lungs left. Needless to say, no no-pass-through bullets in my plans anymore. Great distance, perfect shot placement, and a big 300! And a lot of luck that I recovered these animals. I killed four more deer in 2021 (Arkansas) with Accubonds. DRT, every time, high shoulder or vitals...

That's a nice looking buck, congratulations

 

[cornshank]

That's a nice looking buck, congratulations

Hey , nice to hear accubonds worked for you and you like them .i also like accubonds and ballistic tips in 180 gr.
I asked the elk in my freezer if he also liked Noslers , he replied (what do you think ?).
I replied ( see you at dinner ).

 

[Cemetery21]

what cartridge, bullet weight, and muzzle velocity

243, 87 gr Hornady flat base spire point, using WW 760 for 3100 fps. Same rifle and bullet for 40 years. I am pretty selective on the shots I take. 10 day season here and I always took the whole season off, so I could be out every day. Also, I hunt meat not horns.