Pass through or Expended in Target?

[itsmrbill]

I prefer a pass through, and with a 300 WBY that is usually the case. And seldom do I have to track more than a few feet.

 

[Cemetery21]

What are you shooting them with

Hornady 87 gr. flat base spire point in a 243 at 3100 fps. Same rifle and load for 40 years.
All whitetail around here.

 

[cornshank]

I prefer a pass through, and with a 300 WBY that is usually the case. And seldom do I have to track more than a few feet.

Like that caliber!

 

[biff's reloading]

Maybe some of you should use full metal jacket, you get all the velocity and guaranteed pass through. Pass through and better chance of a good blood trail is very important... in archery.

This type of argument is called "the Strawman". Its when someone uses an argument that has no actual bearing on the subject to essentially spook or shame the opposition away from their stance by causing.them to question their logic. It's a thing people do when they dont have a valid counterpoint or arent able to articulate it, but are too proud to concede. Dont be that guy.

No one in this thread, or on this forum, is gonna use an FMJ bullet on big game. The terminal effects of a solid flat bullet like the tough cast lead bullets in my profile pic are nothing like fmj. A 1/2" flat bullet and a 1/2" mushroomed bullet do basically the same thing. The big bore just does it for longer, so on big animals it continues on destroying flesh well past the point most expanded smaller caliber bullets have stopped, which may or may not be important. Like an F4 tornado stomping it's way across Oklahoma compared to an F2 just hitting the city. Both are destructive, but one does it all day long.
The expanding bullet can do its damage way farther though, so like everything else, "it depends" what you're doing and where. Mule deer at 800 yards? Expanding bullets Obviously. Griz at 20? Or 2?!? I want the F4 tornado

 

[D$tring]

aim small, miss small, track little.

Ideally I want the bullet to expend as much energy inside the animal leaving enough to exit the opposite side.

the "NUT" behind the trigger being the largest factor,"I" like the lung/heart shot when there is room to run and high shoulder when I want it DRT.

Good stuff here, sums up my thoughts exactly. I like options depending on animal, terrain, expected engagement ranges etc. My only concern is death as quickly as possible with little to no tracking, but if have to track I want a steady stream of blood. I hate the feeling of walking and waiting and the mental gymnastics that go with hoping to find a buck/bull (more blood elevates this somewhat), and I love the feeling of walking up on your game stone cold dead—DRT is the best. Seeing them go down and walking up on them is definitely the gold standard. Many ways to skin a buck, but you have to find him first — whatever method you use to do it.

 

[CrankyYankee]

I look at it a different way. 2 ways that kill. Disconnect electrical signals from the brain or drop the blood pressure of oxygenated blood below the level needed to sustain life. Over pressure of blood supply is included in "dropping" blood pressure since a rapid increase in pressure results in a rapid decrease in pressure. Either way... ample penetration is needed to accomplish both. Ample penetration can mean a few inches if tucked in behind the ear, or alot more if blowing through the shoulder of big game on the way through the vital organs needed to produce oxygenated blood.

How much penetration I want depends on the animal and distance hunted. Then the bullet is chosen to accomplish said penetration.

For hunting whitetail deer with Hornady 110 grain TAP (Vmax) in 308, I'll wait for broadside or quartering away. Or maybe ear canal if I'm confident I can make the shot. On a broadside deer hit with that bullet correctly, the insides look like jelly from the liver all the way up the esophagus (over pressure). I don't care what the bullet does after that. None have ever taken more than a few steps and no bullet has ever exited.

I also shoot Barnes TTSX when I want penetration. This is usually when I want to anchor in place. So I place my shots to take out at least 1 shoulder along with the vitals. Last day of a mule deer hunt 20 yards from the property edge and quartering to...I needed to anchor the deer. I could always deliver another shot if needed. 120 TTSX through the shoulder anchored him. Turns out I got the heart too. I would not have taken that shot with a fragmenting bullet. I would have waited until he turned broadside or quartering away, and maybe spent $6K on a hunt to eat tag soup.

So.... stay in or pass through??? I don't care as long as the bullet penetrates to the desired effect. However not all shots go as planned, and tracking ensues. So based on the possibility that desired placement is missed, a blood trail makes it easier to track. And I don't think anyone will argue that 2 holes are better for that than 1.

I've hand a TTSX pencil through broadside when I shot too far back (aiming for shoulder but deer spooked as I was pulling the trigger). No blood and nothing to track, but found the deer with a grid search. Just had to wait for the blood pressure to drop. But if using a fragmenting bullet on a broadside deer hits the shoulder because of movement, the result is unpredictable with any certainty, but the possibility of wounding without recovery becomes real.

Terminal Ballistics is not an exact science, but we can hopefully put the odds in our favor with good decisions. There are too many variables to predict guarantees. My vote... adequate penetration for the bullet to perform to the intended effect with a little more penetration as insurance. Whether the bullet stays in or exits, I don't care.

Oh... and if I was worried about what was behind the animal on pass through, I wouldn't be taking the shot.

Not saying one is right and one is wrong, but these conversations are good for learning... especially with new hunters to better make an informed decision.

 

[Tony Formicola]

I err on the side of penetration. I like tough bullets because you don't always get the perfect angle for a broadside shot. I've killed a couple truckloads of whitetails with quartering to shots through the shoulder with both shotgun slugs and rifle bullets. It is fun to blow them up with a fast expanding bullet as well so I am not dogmatic about it. I will say that I'm a big Barnes fan. But, there are many bullets discussed here that I have yet to try (Hammers).

 

[WildRose]

I am a die-hard believer in softer bullets on game. That is a relative term, of course. A soft bullet in a bull elk or nilgai isnt necessarily a soft bullet in a hippo or a pronghorn.
I prefer a wide enough wound to bleed freely, as I am not a dedicated spine shooter, but not so wide as to prevent penetration nor to create such wide wounding that clotting occurs.
In a 243, I use a ballistic tip, partition or 100 interlock. In 25-06, the 100 game king. 162 sst or eld (either m or x) in 280ai. 165 interlock in 308. Hawk in 375. You may see the pattern.
The extreme of this is to use real varmint bullets on game. It can work, Ive seen it. But penetration is so limited that any margin of error is eliminated. If you neck shoot, this bullet type can work nearly always. Body shots, not so much. And they are super angle dependent.
Solids are the extreme the other way. A round or pointy nose non-deforming bullet can be a cruel wounder, unless bones are broken and vitals are damaged. A pencil hole in a heart can plug and just wound. A flat nosed solid (or equivalent) generally makes a wide for caliber wound and promotes bleeding out both sides. But those wounds often don't compare to those from a weight-shedding expander.
I am a chronic bullet finder. I dig em from backstops. I even dig em from a paunch if I think they are in there (I do have limited smell).
Even with all that said, two holes please.

Just do to the anatomical placement of large veins, arteries, and organs, it's a virtual impossibility for a bullet to pass completely through the chest cavity without hitting something vital to the animal's life sustaining functions.

Two holes with proper shot placement I think gives us the most margin for error.

Even though I shoot hundreds of critters each year I am kind of a softie and even with hogs and coyotes I do everything I can to ensure the most humane death I can when I pull the trigger.

 

[WildRose]

Some of you might want to try full metal jacket for guaranteed pass through. Pass through with a blood trail is a big thing with archery though.

Not a good plan and not even legal in most states for medium or large game.

FMJ's have a nasty habit of "bending" into something of a banana shape causing them to tumble badly and fail to track straight through.

Solids that we shoot at dangerous game are different, the tips are blunted normally but the bullets are somewhat egg shaped.

The flat point ensures a really big pressure wave ahead of the bullet but it tracks straight through because of the rounded or conical front section.

Good mono's and bonded bullets will expand consistently giving us the widest possible cross section and still track straight through the body because of their length.

Much like the RNFP Dangerous Game Bullet they will punch bone with controlled, consistent expansion if we do our part and consider the impact velocities that bullet is designed for and adjust the ranges we shoot at accordingly giving them every opportunity to perform as designed and intended.

 

[floyd kittrell]

Pass through !

 

[Mad Minion]

I'm for either, my intent is to put them down quickly. What I do prefer is the medium bore calibers with large for caliber bullets (.30 and .338 specifically), they just work. Although my 6.5 x 284 is a whitetail killing machine and my sons go to when we hunt.

 

[colfaxent]

Ok I really blew the wording of the poll, I should be embarrassed.

Which would you rather do or build a bridge?

 

[Fishhook805]

Over the last years watching guys shoot California blacktail with a majorities only option in store bought ammo were too heavy of solid copper bullets . Bullets passed thru like a pencil , most guys thinking they missed until someone put it on bones and broke him down . I would prefer the bullet give all it had to offer but most do pass thru especially when fired from a 300 or7mm RUM I personally use 150's when loading for them or 120's for the .257 Weatherby . Surprising how many Mulies take a half step after taking a 120 that stuck. No tracking nessary on them. It seems not many like shooting lighter bullets these days. It's great to be knowledgeable and prepared for that 800 yard shot but I find it's normally inside 200 that just from my perspective.

 

[mnoland30]

After hunting elk with a muzzleloader, and seeing a needle hole in the near hide from a pointed bullet, and over an inch diameter on a .45 cal. bullet, and no blood trail in rocky ground, I became a believer in pass through. When an animal runs off, it pays to wait 20 or 30 minutes before tracking so they don't get their adrenaline up and keep moving. So, if you shoot near dark, and there is no blood trail, they can be really tough to find.

My solution is to go with a cup and core bullet with an s.d. of around .280. That gives better penetration and still expands well. Once I started using a bullet that wasn't pure lead, and wasn't pointed, most of my elk have dropped in their tracks. I used a flat nosed hard cast once, and it went from stem to stern, but didn't kill very quickly. I was beginning to think I had missed her by the time I found her.

In my 7mm WSM, I shoot a 168 gr. Berger. I've never recovered a bullet on aoudad, javelina, antelope, elk, or deer. I didn't have to wait 20 minutes, because I saw them all go down.

i've used Barnes a lot, and still like them.

Gutting a deer? Much cleaner to use the gutless method.

I have to call BS on TXHeart shot. No animal in the history of hunting has ever run closer to the vehicle. LOL.