Pass through or Expended in Target?

[Will Gray]

I want an exit, but not just falling out. Bullets create shock ONLY when they are going fast enough to create that pressure and force in the tissue. When a little expanding Bullet hits flesh, it immediately Slows down. Most deer caliber bullets cant even create a wide shock path longer than a few inches. Try some ballistics gel and see it. It's a short length of shock, then a pencil thin hole the rest of the way out. Sure that's normally enough to make the kill, but I want 6" diameter+ shock cavity the entire length of the wound channel, regardless of point of impact. Big bores, heavy flat nose bullets, high bullet speed from entry to exit with large frontal area makes fast kills and covers for a lot of my human error at the shot. I use expanding bullets for longer range, but I still pick a bigger gun than most so I can use a sturdier bullet with softer nose to create the same effect. At least that's my experience.

YES! That is why my 358 Winchester with 200g Sierra RN bullets puts them on the ground: big hole on both sides, lots of blood if there is a bit of a run. 200yds is about my limit distance.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Lungs make up almost a third of the side view of the torso of most game animals that we hunt. Some even a little bigger. If you put a bullet into the airbags, it isn't going far. You could shoot FMJ's and if you pop both lungs, it will be real close. So, any bullet that performs better than an FMJ is a bonus. I think it is more about understanding your bullet and how it will perform at range. I personally subscribe to the idea that you shouldn't hunt an animal with a cartridge/bullet that you can't reasonably expect to be able to kill it on the worst angle possible. If you are hunting Elk, your cartridge should be able to blow through the thickest part of the shoulder bones and still wreck the vitals. If not, you aren't prepared. Whether or not it pokes through the other side doesn't matter to me all that much. Tracking an animal with one hole in it isn't that complicated, as long as that hole is in a lethal spot. If you hit vitals, there will be plenty of blood, and you wont be tracking very far anyways. Bullets can't be relied upon to bail you out of a bad shot.

 

[Chas1]

I voted pass through.

 

[cornshank]

I guess I don't care either, but.... 43 deer and only one pass through. That was a head shot on a bedded deer. The other 42, the perfectly mushroomed bullet was a bulge in the hide on the far side. Only two took a step after being hit and they fell within sight. I've been lucky. Only deer I've tracked were buddy's deer that had pass throughs.
I try to be careful where I hit them and I have no business taking a shot over about 200. Never hunted anything centerfire but deer as far as game goes.
Edit: Do I lose my LRH badge for admitting I shouldn't be shooting over 200 offhand?

Not at all , when it comes to terminal ballistics , trophy photos , just to name a few subjects ,it's not LongRange ,its hunting. Don't worry about it . A very high percentage of the comments you will here will probably be under 500 yds.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Big Calibers, Thick Bullet Jackets and Heavy Recoiling Rifles, will give you, "the Pass through" almost every, Time !
Sold my .338 Win Mag. WHEN I realized that, a .270 WSM or, 7 MM Rem Mag. with, a BERGER at, 3,100 to 3,200 FPS dropped them DRT without,..
the Recoil AND,. I can practice a lot, now and I shoot,. MUCH,. BETTER !
We had, 5 One shot Kills with, Bergers and ELD-X's this, year ( NOT much, of a Blood Trail ) but, ALL DRT with one / two Hops max.
All Bullets were stuck in, the Hair / Hide on,.. the FAR side.

 

[TxHeartShot]

I like to find a perfectly mushroomed Partition or A-frame just under the offside hide and I've been very lucky in that regard.

I've really only had one pass through on a big game animal, 85 gr TSX from a 6mm Rem at about 45 yards; the whitetail ran about 100 yards right toward the 4 wheeler hidden in the brush and died about 10 feet away from it!

 

[jerry moore]

Someone posted this again today and it made me think maybe we should discuss it again.



Now 50 years ago this was the "standard" by which people pretty well went in desirable terminal performance with most game and most bullets.

Even well into the late Eighties and Nineties this was probably still the dominant thinking at least here in N. America.

That however has never been the standard for game, particularly big game hunters in the rest of the world.

The theory of course was that if the bullet never exited all of it's energy was imparted to the target which would make for the cleanest and most humane kill. I'm not positive but I think Jack O'Connor was probably responsible for this becoming the dominant mindset in N., American and particularly the US.

What we've learned though over the years however is that a single hole doesn't usually produce a whole lot of a blood trail ant bullets that pass through completely show to do more damage overall when examining wounds not to mention much better blood trails to follow.


What is your preference, your experience and why? Pictures are welcome but on this computer I don't have any to share although I have shared many here over the years in prior threads.

Now let's see if I can get a poll working right?

right bullet you can have both just my opinion

 

[cornshank]

i vote non pass thru , because that's what most of my bullets do, they usually have made some damage most of the way through , but don't exit and it works . I have been lucky enough to only have to track a few cripples . I'd say 98% dead With in a short distance .180 gr Nosler balistic tips or accubonds

 

[doubledoc]

I guess that's why I appreciate the NP design: a soft anterior compartment that fractures and 'sheds' and expands, followed by roughly 60% of the bullet in a package designed to penetrate and exit and leave a blood traif, IF that were necessary. It's sort-of the best of both worlds in a wide velocity window!

 

[Jon Bischof]

I have usually been pretty adamant about my bullets staying together and a pass through. This past season I hunted with my new 6.5/284 and it really likes Berger 140 Elite Hunter. Shot both my deer, whitetail and MD, and what a mess. Both deer DRT but geez. What a mess to clean. Both deer shot behind shoulder in lungs, bullets exploded inside. Sure made a bloody mess field dressing. Going to work up new loads with Accubonds. Love those bullets and how they perform.

Had a similar experience with Hornady SST. It passed through. Buck didn't go 40 yards, but the insides were jellyfied mess. That is just not necessary and I know that a Sierra Game King or Fusion bullet would probably have dropped him sooner without all the mess made of field dressing. Accubond expands but doesn't explode.

There's also more than one way to get DRT. One way is to use a larger, faster cartridge that just hydrostatics the game to the ground. Something over 3,000 fps impact velocity and critters don't stand up or run very well after that.

 

[Tree Farmer]

Pass through using a bonded bullet (NAB) or mono (Hammer). Used an Amax about 20 years ago. Massive internal damage, wasted meat and lack of blood trail made me choose a different bullet.

 

[LVJ76]

Don't care much about it, but did vote pass through.

In my experience I've most always gotten an exit wound using soft bullets like the SST, Ballistic Tips, Gamekings and recently Bergers.

My longest kill shot was just under 485 yds so not really long range, in this case the 7mm 139gr SST ended under the hide of the offside shoulder. The deer took a few steps and laid down.

I believe this is due mostly because I stay off the shoukder as much as possible, no bone or muscle besides lungs to stop the bullet. In most of the kills that I have taken a shoulder shot the bullet did exit as well. Very few have not made it through. These shoulder shots I've made are because I do not want that animal to go anywhere, and in some cases they still take off. Next time I'll try the high shoukder shot from these situations.

I only know a handful of people that can shoot accurately offhand.

Normal humans tend to need a good rest even to hit an 8" paper plate at 50yds five shots in a row.

It's not easy to shoot offhand, accurately that is. It takes thousands of rounds of practice. Most of my kills that have been at 300 yds or less have been offhand. The ones further have been with some sort of rest.

However, I shoot silhouette competition so I practice a lot. I shoot over a thousand rounds per year like this and an another thousand in small bore silhouette as well.

It takes lots and lots of practice, and still have to use good judgement.

 

[Blue Ridge Rifleman]

I guess I don't care either, but.... 43 deer and only one pass through. That was a head shot on a bedded deer. The other 42, the perfectly mushroomed bullet was a bulge in the hide on the far side. Only two took a step after being hit and they fell within sight. I've been lucky. Only deer I've tracked were buddy's deer that had pass throughs.
I try to be careful where I hit them and I have no business taking a shot over about 200. Never hunted anything centerfire but deer as far as game goes.
Edit: Do I lose my LRH badge for admitting I shouldn't be shooting over 200

 

[Blue Ridge Rifleman]

What are you shooting them with that you have recovered 42 bullets? I don't recall ever recovering a bullet from a couple dozen mule deer.