PA. Votes NO

Discussion in 'Politics Of Hunting And Guns (NOT General Politics' started by Waynzee, Mar 29, 2017.


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  1. jbs2014

    jbs2014 Well-Known Member

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    I have no issue with you not owning a semi-automatic rifle and I have no problem with others hunting with one. It has its advantages and disadvantages. You get quick followup shots, reducing the likelihood of the animal running off wounded. The problem I see with a semi-auto is caliber limitation. I have not seen any in 300 RUM or .338 Snipetac. The ones that are available in .408 run over 10,000 dollars.

    Just curious, what is the reason you don't want semi-autos associated with hunting?

    Do you have any issues with folks owning a semi-auto for purposes other than hunting?
     
  2. Quarter Round

    Quarter Round Previously Charles B

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    Edit error in reply.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  3. Quarter Round

    Quarter Round Previously Charles B

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    I support your right to disagree and pleased to hear how you are supporting the 2nd admendment, but I will point out several small arms ordinace are used by the military. Pump shotguns, revolvers, and bolt action rifles. I carried a S&W 38 special d/a and Win. 97 pump shotgun, all military ordinance checked out through the armory. Just a different thought.
     
  4. bassassassin104

    bassassassin104 Member

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    I wonder if discussions like this one occurred when bolt action rifles or pump shotguns were brought onto the scene? Of course there was no internet or forums etc., but do you think it was a heated debate at the time? Or was there no debate at all because firearms weren’t regulated as they are now? I don’t know, nor am I willing to dig to find out, I just wonder if we are reliving something that has occurred in the past. People fear change, it is in our nature to imagine the worst. Seems like some on here have this mental image of Rambo running through the woods firing an AR into the air, tackling deer and slaughtering everything in sight. Fact is, responsible hunters will be responsible and irresponsible hunters won’t. I’m not sure it will matter much what firearm they are carrying.
     
  5. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    Well lets clarify.
    I’m not opposed to someone choosing a semi auto to hunt with per se. Guns like the Rem semi auto which as i recall is a model 742, or others like it with 5 round magazines would be fine with me and i think most others.
    I’m also not opposed to someone owning any other semi auto including the military types for whatever their reasons for owning them. Most will claim that to be for self defense reasons. If i felt compelled to carry a firearm for that reason, a semi auto would be my choice also.
     
  6. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    Well unfortunately there are no live witnesses to answer that question. And like most things there was no doubt at least some opposition. Cars for example were known to cause horses to get excited and upset carriages with people in them.
    So there were laws created against cars.
    I think advancement in firearms techknowledgy however was a different matter at least for the most part.
    But this discussion is all about firepower and how much of it some feel they are entitled to use while hunting.
    Make no mistake about that regardless as to how it has been portrayed.
     
  7. jbs2014

    jbs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Well then, you are most definitely NOT a "Fudd".
     
  8. Riflehunter1776

    Riflehunter1776 Well-Known Member

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    A 742 is okay, but an AR-10 is not? that makes no sense. maybe we could put a nice wood stock on the AR so it isn't so ....... black.

    Firepower? I'd go with a 5 rd magazine in the AR-10. Most good ARs will outshoot a 742 easily, so I'd even be fine with a 3 rd mag.

    looks like there are no more objections.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  9. Quarter Round

    Quarter Round Previously Charles B

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    Disagree on magazine size, to many variations of firearms used and what we have them intended for.
     
  10. CMP70306

    CMP70306 Well-Known Member

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    Man how did I miss this one coming back to life, welp I guess I’ll get down to it.

    Semi autos in PA were banned in 1907 which was shortly after the introduction of the Remington Model 8 which is considered to be the first successful semi auto sporting rifle. At the time does were given total protection as the deer herd was perilously low and needed to be rebuilt. In this day bag limits were rarely followed and most hunters simply shot whatever they wanted so there was the concern that these new semi autos would allow for far more killing of game and were banned to prevent this.

    Fast forward 110 years and this is no longer an issue, game rules do not allow for multiple deer to be taken without previously tagging the prior animal and most people are limited to 1 to 3 tags so someone shooting multiple deer at a time to the detriment of the resource is no longer an issue. So if that isn’t the reason that is barring the allowance of semi autos for big game than what is?

    One argument I’ve heard is because it will allow “Military Style Weapons” to be used in the woods, which that statement is either ignorant or stupid depending on your knowledge of firearms history. The Remington 700, a staple of the hunting world was originally adopted with a heavy barrel and 3-9 scope as the first official Sniper rifle of the USA. The Model 70 was used as a sniper rifle and is itself a sporterized derivative of the Mauser 98 and by association 1903 Springfield, main battle rifles of the early 20th century. The 1860 Henry and by association the lever action repeater was designed for the military though the lever action rifle (with the exception of the 1895 Russian) was not adopted in any quantity due to the politics of the day. The flintlock and percussion rifles and muskets were all military rifles and no one is advocating for their removal. Additionally what about military style cartridges like the 45-70, 30-06, 308, .223, 6.5x55 Swede which were all developed for war and the 6.5 Creedmoor and .300 Win Mag we also repurposed by the military as well. The M1 Garand and M1A are both “Military Style Rifles” but I don’t see anyone singling them out like the AR and AR are the two that get singled out even though the later 3 were all developed the the 15 years after WW2.

    However the biggest concern I hear is that “hunters will be spraying bullets through the woods” and the fear of getting hit by stray rounds. You know what causes that? Unfamiliarity with the weapon system and generally speaking who are the ones most likely to have that problem? The once a year deer crew who sight in the guns Sunday that they put in the safe the December before and haven’t touched since. And guess who is dropping out of the sport the fastest which means that realistically speaking soon the only people left will be those that take pride in hunting and their marksmanship.

    I greatly pride myself on accuracy and making the most efficient shot possible so no matter the action type I strive to only use 1 round. In fact I only own 4 semi auto rifles, a target AR, a 3-Gun/Coyote AR, M1A and M1 Garand. That might sound like a lot but I’ve spent more on each one of my customs than all of those combine so I’m clearly more of a bolt action fan.

    That being said If legal I wouldn’t take my M1 Garland out because I have 8 rounds to fling through the woods, I would take my M1 Garand because it was one of the most influential firearms of the 20th century and chambered in one of the most ubiquitous cartridges to grace this world. To hunt with it is like hunting with a piece of history that hunters is PA have been bared from doing because of an archaic outdated law/regulation that should have been changed decades ago.

    So to recap, this whole argument isn’t really about semi auto rifles, as yobuck pointed out he is fine with rifles like the Remington 742 and by extension the BAR (modern not 1918). Since he is not the first to say that it shows that the semi auto action alone is not the issue at hand.

    What this really is is a referendum on the AR pattern rifles and the controversy they bring. The media, gun websites and that one jack wagon you meet at the range have conditioned many people to perceive AR owners and morons at the best or deranged Rambo wannabes at the worse who will take their mag pouches full of 30 round mags blasting through the woods at anything that moves. In reality that isn’t what will happen, those people won’t be hunting as it requires far to much effort and the once a year guys aren’t going to spend the money on a new gun and will continue to dump their 7600s and 30-30’s like they’ve done for decades. What will happen is some people who already own them will take them hunting and a few people who wanted a semi auto but couldn’t justify it because of the laws will buy one to take out hunting. The sky will not fall, no one will die and everything will continue on just like it had before.
     
    jbs2014 and Riflehunter1776 like this.
  11. Riflehunter1776

    Riflehunter1776 Well-Known Member

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    very well said.
     
  12. Riflehunter1776

    Riflehunter1776 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    5 round mag, wood stock. If looks could kill, you wouldn't even have to put rounds in that mag /sarc
     
    Quarter Round and jbs2014 like this.