Opinions on building a long range hunting rifle.

[liltank]

Thank you for all the feed back. I live in Utah at 7000 ft above sea level and elk hunt a 8-10000 ft. so I need to do some more research on the best caliber. I am not apposed to the 300 WSM. Just most of the guys around here have recommended the 300 RUM. I agree that practice with the rifle is the most critical component. Fortunately where I live, it is very easy to practice long range shots there is no one for miles.

I just put your elevation in. I went with the middle of the road at 9000ft. The current load I showed you will get you to 1170yrds. So I would say that is a pretty even trade off efficiency for power.

Tank

 

[muley75]

Thanks for your help, as I get close I will look for more help. Once again thanks for all the information from everyone.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thank you for all the feed back. I live in Utah at 7000 ft above sea level and elk hunt a 8-10000 ft. so I need to do some more research on the best caliber. I am not apposed to the 300 WSM. Just most of the guys around here have recommended the 300 RUM. I agree that practice with the rifle is the most critical component. Fortunately where I live, it is very easy to practice long range shots there is no one for miles.

I have a 300 WSM and a 300 RUM. The RUM is my go to hunting rifle because it has a little longer range and ATM, it's more accurate. If you dont mind the shorter barrel life and recoil, by all means go with the RUM.

With my two rifles, there is only 200 fps differnce between them which equates to about 125 yds of effective range difference. The RUM eats up 97.5 gr of Retumbo vs 67.5 gr of RL 17 for the WSM. The RUM kicks way more than the WSM. I was at the range today with both of them and I fired the RUM for the first time without a slip-on recoil pad (because I forgot it) I was wearing an insulated Carhart Coat which helped. The kick didn't feel all that bad - about the same as with the slip-on. But it definitely kicked. Then I shot the 300 WSM, which is about 2 lbs lighter. It felt like a 243 compared to the RUM.

My 300 WSM is shooting 180 E-Tips @ about 3200 fps (24 3/8" bbl) and the RUM about 3400 fps (26" bbl). At 8000' elevation The WSM gets to 1050 yds with 1820 fps V, 1325 KE and 47 lb ft M. The RUM gets to 1175 yds with 1820 fps.... 125 yds farther.

The WSM uses 30% less powder, has about 2/3rds the felt recoil, and the barrel will last about 3x-4x longer than the RUM. Some guys use a brake on the RUM. I'm OK without it. The WSM doesn't need a brake. A good barrel for the WSM would be 25" in #5 or #6 contour. A good barrel for the RUM would be 27", Sendero contour (#8). That's about 2 lbs diff.

Sooo... is a RUM worth it???? gun)

 

[muley75]

Wow, that is the exact information I have been looking for. Someone who has both rifles. Based of that information I think the 300 WSM would work just fine. What are my chance of buying a gun off shelf that has the ability to shoot 800 yards? I know a lot of it depends on me, but I don't want to waste a bunch of time trying to get results that are not possible.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

If you want an off the rack shooter in 300 WSM, I say get the Sub MOA Vanguard in SS. They have a great pillar bedded stock and action and guaranteed to shoot less than 1" @ 100 yds and come with a factrory shot target. Others will tell you to get a Savage. I have read a lot of good things about them but I think the Vanguard action (Howa) is better.

With some good load work, you should be able to reach 800 accurately.

 

[liltank]

Go to your local gun store and buy a Savage. (Here it comes from the Weatherby and Remmy guys!) Sorry, the only work that needs to be done to a Savage is: Put a 20 MOA base, Rings, and a scope. Go break in the barrel in about 50 rnds and your good to go.

Here are some to temp the palate.

Savage Arms Model 12 Varminter Low Profile

Savage Centerfire Hunting Rifle 16FHSS

Savage Centerfire Hunting Rifle 16FCSS

Savage Arms Hunter Series Model 11FCNS

Savage Centerfire Hunting Rifle 16FCSAK

Remington Model 700™ SPS™

Remington Model 700™ SPS™ Stainless Specifications

 

[liltank]

If you want an off the rack shooter in 300 WSM, I say get the Sub MOA Vanguard in SS. They have a great stcok and action and guaranteed to shoot less than 1" @ 100 yds and come with a factrory shot target. Others will tell you to get a Savage. I have read a lot of good things about them but I think the Vanguard action (Howa) is better.

With some good load work, you should be able to reach 800 accurately.

Howa is definitely a good action. I have used one for years that shot lights out in a 25-06. I really enjoyed that rifle, but it required a trigger job from a gunsmith. So if you are privy to a trigger job I agree MR. He and I are like minded more than he will admit. LOL! Seriously, he makes a good suggestion. I own two Savages and they both shoot. My Savage 22LR shoots bug holes at 50yrds. My Mod 12 shoots .75MOA or less. A good load always keeps me hovering the .5MOA mark if I do my part. No smithing needed.

Tank

 

[BIG MO]

Another advantage of going with the 300WSM is that no matter what brand of rifle you choose it will probably shoot MOA right off the shelf with factory ammo and probably half that with tuned handloads. It is a wonderfully accurate and forgiving cartridge.

Weatherby has gotten some of the message on the Vangard triggers. Now they are all tuned at the factory to about 3.2lbs with little to no creep. I have tried a couple and they are pretty decent, but you still cannot readily adjust them below 3lbs. (just like the new Remington X-Mark Pro trigger) Older Vangard triggers were very creepy and mandated a timney trigger group.

I'm a fan of Savage, Weatherby, Remington, Browning, Sako, Tikka etc. I have had the opportunity to shoot and load for alot of them. You need to get down to the gun shop and handle them all to see what feels good, looks good, and has the features that appeal to you.

All of us have our Pet brands and whoever helps you out at the gun counter will have his also. Just because he works the gun counter generally does not make him an authority on what is best for you.

My 2 cents is to get whatever you like in 300WSM. Chances are about 90% it will be a SUB MOA rig with handloads. In the $400 range, my personal Pet budget long range HUNTING rifle is the Weatherby that comes with a factory shot target. In the $700 range, the Sako, which guarantees 5 shots submoa and is one well engineered rig with a great trigger.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Tank, I sure hope you're getting a commision

That model 12 is a 10 lb beast I think I would rather opt for a 8 1/2 lb Sendero, but too bad they don't have it in a WSM.

I was just foolin around with my S&W M1500 (Howa M1500) 7mm RM. Now that is a solid peice of work. The forward action screw comes up into the recoil lug which is actually part of the receicer body. Interesting.... Its in a beautiful walnut stock that I stripped the glossy polyurethane off and oiled it to a nice satin finsh. The guard and mag box are all one peice, heavy (read solid quality) construction. The bolt is almost as smooth as my Sako 85. I need to get this thing bedded and need to get a B&C Medalist for it. I just adjusted the trigger down to about a very crisp 2lbs. It is sweet. This rifle was purchased in '82 and has been sitting in my closet for most of that time. Maybe a 100 rounds or so through it and it's a tack driver. I haven't seen any of the newer Howas or Vanguards out of the stock, so not sure if they are like this one. If it's the same trigger, it is extremely easy to adjust, just turn the forward screw to the deisered weight.

So if the Vanguard action is like this one, my vote is still the Vanguard gun)

And I would take the SPS off the list. The stocks are junk and what you get for accuracy is a roll of the dice. You could get one for a build, but I would sooner get a Howa. The only Rem for me are the Sendero's.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

...You need to get down to the gun shop and handle them all to see what feels good, looks good, and has the features that appeal to you.

Plus one... and look for quality materials and craftmanship.

In the $400 range, my personal Pet budget long range HUNTING rifle is the Weatherby that comes with a factory shot target.

The regular Vanguards are only guaranteed to 1.5" and have a low grade stock - dont go there. The Sub MOA Vanguards in SS go about $830 on gunbroker.

In the $700 range, the Sako, which guarantees 5 shots submoa and is one well engineered rig with a great trigger.

You're probably talking about the Sako A7. They go for about $800 in SS. They are a cross between a Tikka, M75 and M85. What I dont like about them is they have plastic mag box and and plastic bolt shroud. They also have a piece of junk plastic stock. I know it's junk because I have one on my Finnlight. It's "guaranteed" to shoot sub MOA, but it's an empty guarantee and no factory shot target. Some of them shoot good and some dont. I have one that shoots 2-4 MOA in 300 WSM and it's been back to the factory twice, both times sent back saying they shot to spec. Sako is owned by Beretta and Beretta is probably the worst CS out there. I paid $1200 for a 2-4 MOA rifle. I love the the action, and it does have a great trigger. It is quality material and workmanship stuck into a peice of junk plastic stock. Never, ever buy a rifle with a plastic stock unless you intend to replace it.

 

[liltank]

I wish I could pull a commission and work for Savage. I like employee pricing. Anyway, I figured I would put the SPS on for the Remmy guys. I just looked and Howa does not offer the 300WSM. Oh well, you could always buy an action and rebarrel it.

My dad has either the Vangaurd Sport or the Mark V delux. I know he got it back in the early 90's before they really started producing the synthetics. Its a pretty rifle and kills nicely. The first year he took it out he shot a nice 8pt.

Tank

 

[BIG MO]

Yep, I was referring to the Sako A-7. That sucks you got a bad SAKO. You need to trade that turd in on something else. I had the opportunity to develope handloads for two A-7s. One in 270WSM and one in 300WSM. Holy cow did they shoot. Five rounds under an inch? No problem. It was like punching holes with a 12lbs .308 TAC rig. Overall, I was very impressed with the attributes of these rifles. Yea, the stock is nothing to write home about, but I found it pleasing.

Again, I'm a big fan of the Weatherby, and the SUB-MOA is all the better with the sweet accu-stock with the tan and black spiderweb. Sportsmans Warehouse had one in 300WSM on sale for $589. I wanted to buy it, but I could not justify it because I already have a regular Vangard in 300WSM that is SUBMOA. However, at that price I was tempted to own two.

I ended up buying another regular Vangard in 7mm Rem Mag. It had a factory target showing 9/10ths of an inch group with 150grain soft points. Tuned handloads pretty much cut that in half. As far as plastic budget stocks go, I like the Vangard stock. At $399, I feel like a thief leaving the gun counter with one.

 

[liltank]

Talked to dad, it is the Vanguard VGX Deluxe. It has a blond color stalk with very nice wood grain, the gold bands between the rose wood caps. Very nice rifle, he got it used.

Tank

 

[gunslinger169]

I have had 4 different 300wsm rifles in the past,first a Browning a-bolt stainless stalker (the first year the 300wsm came out) it shot sub-moa out to 550 and took a nice bull in idaho at 480 one shot behind the shoulder.I also had a weatherby vanguard,nice rifle but hated the trigger.Next was a Sako 75,very nicely built rifle and shot moa at 550 but to pretty.Now im back to a Browning abolt they just pack so much easier hunting.I also load a 168 amax over 42.2 varget which is same load as my 308 and works perfecty on these little KY deer.