OK Before I do something stupid...

[WildRose]

After far too long a wait I finally received the bullets, primers, patches, cleaner, and BH 209 so I'm itching to get some shooting done with the several months old brand new CVA Nitride!

I have 290 and 300gr bullets so I'm thinking of starting with 100gr of BH 209 as measured by volume.

My plan once I get something shooting well is to then measure three to five loads by volume and weigh each of them establishing a consistent weight and then start measuring by weight instead of volume.

I was planning to, before shooting, try to blow and scrub out the bore a bit to remove any remaining grease/oil etc and maybe do a little light lapping with a tight jag and lapping compound to smooth out any rough spots, clean it again and start shooting!

Any holes in my plan?

 

[ENCORE]

After far too long a wait I finally received the bullets, primers, patches, cleaner, and BH 209 so I'm itching to get some shooting done with the several months old brand new CVA Nitride!
I have 290 and 300gr bullets so I'm thinking of starting with 100gr of BH 209 as measured by volume.
My plan once I get something shooting well is to then measure three to five loads by volume and weigh each of them establishing a consistent weight and then start measuring by weight instead of volume.
I was planning to, before shooting, try to blow and scrub out the bore a bit to remove any remaining grease/oil etc and maybe do a little light lapping with a tight jag and lapping compound to smooth out any rough spots, clean it again and start shooting!
Any holes in my plan?

Assuming you have the proper CVA or Western Breech plug for properly shooting BH? If not, you'll need that for proper ignition.

Using production rifles, most shooters using BH, find charges of between 100 to 110grs VOLUME the ideal charge. A huge number settle on 110grs volume, as it appears to be a "sweet spot" for most barrels and with quality bullets.

BH can be weighed, as Western Powders has provided the volume to weight conversion number, .7 Western provides that information: www.blackhorn209.com

In all cases, 120grs VOLUME or 84grs by WEIGHT is a maximum charge.

Example: 120 x .7 = 84 So 120grs VOLUME times .7 equals 84grs WEIGHT (Maximum charge).

Example 2: 110v x .7 = 77grs WEIGHT

 

[IdahoCTD]

Lapping compound will prove futile if it truly is nitrided.

 

[FrontierGander]

exactly what I do! A can of birchwood casey gun scrubber, remington 40x bore cleaner, blue loctite, barricade. Strip the stock off, blow the action out, clean out the breech plug threads. 40x the bore about 50 strokes, clean it all againm relube the frame internals with Barricade, bore gets barricade as well. Go shoot!

 

[Dr. Vette]

From what I have observed with BH 209, I would not waste time trying to measure it by volume since you already own the equipment to measure it by weight. As Encore mentions you can use the 0.7 conversion factor and get very close, but more importantly very consistent. I load up my Chargemaster 1500 and fill up a bunch of tubes from Lane:
jesuslives2saveu | eBay
I color code the tube tops to match 100/110/120 grain equivalent (70/77/84gr by weight) charges and I'm good to go.

When you put BH 209 in a graduated tube I often find that 100gr volumetric can be 98 or even 95 or less if you tap the side of the tube a few times to let it settle. The variability just isn't for me so I quickly moved to measuring by weight.

Good luck with your muzzleloader!

 

[marioq]

Assuming you have the proper CVA or Western Breech plug for properly shooting BH? If not, you'll need that for proper ignition.

Using production rifles, most shooters using BH, find charges of between 100 to 110grs VOLUME the ideal charge. A huge number settle on 110grs volume, as it appears to be a "sweet spot" for most barrels and with quality bullets.

BH can be weighed, as Western Powders has provided the volume to weight conversion number, .7 Western provides that information: www.blackhorn209.com

In all cases, 120grs VOLUME or 84grs by WEIGHT is a maximum charge.

Example: 120 x .7 = 84 So 120grs VOLUME times .7 equals 84grs WEIGHT (Maximum charge).

Example 2: 110v x .7 = 77grs WEIGHT

See rose!!! I knew ENCORE would chime in!!!! You can't skip anything muzzle loader related by that man!!!!
He taught me and you saw the results!!!!! Hahahahah

 

[WildRose]

See rose!!! I knew ENCORE would chime in!!!! You can't skip anything muzzle loader related by that man!!!!
He taught me and you saw the results!!!!! Hahahahah

Yep and thanks to All for the help here.

Mario and I were on the phone an hour ago and told me you guys would set me straight for sure but that I seemed to be on the right path.

Doc, much appreciated your thinking is exactly what I was thinking on it. Powder density measured volumetrically is just way to highly variable for the kind of consistency most of us look for. Fine for pistol rounds or plinking but not even close for precision shooting.

Hopefully I'll have time to get it out and get started tomorrow.

Yes, I bought the 209 breech plug with the purchase of the rifle after again reading a lot here and paying attention to the experience of others.

I almost hate to admit but being a complete novice with the ML I was indeed a bit nervous and I knew I could count on others here to set me on the right path.

Thanks again.

 

[WildRose]

Well got it out and shot enough Friday to probably get it broken in right.

Tried the 300gr Scorpions with the black sabot at a measured 100gr. Shot pretty well.

After talking with Mario I decided to beef it up to 110gr, again, measured volumetrically.

Learned quite a bit. I was shaking the tubes and tapping on them to be sure I got consistency and a level top dead even at 100gr, and the same later go get the 110gr loads.

I noticed the latter were giving significantly more velocity and a good bit more recoil. This really is a light rifle for heavy bullets and max charges or near max.

Biggest lesson of the day?

Well when I got home and started loading tubes up for the next outing I decided to weight the loads. Guess what I learned?

Yep, my actual load when I thought I was shooting 100gr proved to actually be 110-112gr and the 110's I'd eyeballed were somewhere between 120-122gr.

Last time around I was just winging it. Stuck a target on an old telephone pole and just backed the truck up fifty yards and stood leaning against the driver's side using the mirror as a rest.

Next time, hopefully tomorrow, I'll be setting up at the range on a bench and shooting for accuracy.

Recoil I'm finding to be similar to that of my 45-70s and 375 Ruger. Definitely tolerable but enough recoil you want to make sure you're well braced with the rifle and have your self well balanced to handle a pretty good "whump".

I also learned to my surprise that it didn't take very long to get to where I could shoot, swab, reload and fire in a fairly reasonable amount of time.

I've also figured out just how much extra gear it takes to have a complete muzzle loading package full of essentials and it was a bit surprising but not just a huge extra expense to get it all bought.

The Rifle Case that comers with the package new is pretty nice and has really big side pocket that seals with Velcro. Don't rely on it to hold your stuff because it doesn't get close to completely sealing.

To remedy this I just got on ebay and picked up three zippered bank deposit bags. Once for loaded tubes, bullets, primers, sabots etc, one for field cleaning supplies and yet another for extra loading supplies in case they are needed.

Like anything else new that we take on ourselves, there's a learning curve to muzzle loading as compared to center fire rifles but it's relatively short and not too awful steep.

I'd post pictures but I can't figure out how to get them from my phone downloaded to this site without a whole lot of gyrations. Mario has them so maybe he's got an easier way.

 

[ENCORE]

Get yourself a photobucket account, then upload your photos. Click on the photo you'd like to share, then on the right there will be a bunch of "Link Shares". Click on the bottom IMG file and it automatically copies them. Then just do a paste in the forum you'd like to share the photo.

Because BH is so consistent in form and Western has provided the conversion, many do weigh their charges. When I was shooting production rifles, 75grs by weight (107 volume) was always a perfect charge with any of my rifles. Do your best to seat your bullets with the same amount of force with each load. It will take some practice, but making everything consistent will improve your groups. Its not that BH won't ignite with a light bullet seating force but, IMO you should seat the bullet hard as recommended.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: ONCE YOU DETERMINE WHICH CHARGE IS THE MOST ACCURATE WITH YOUR BULLET............. MAKE A WITNESS MARK ON YOUR RAMROD AND WITHOUT FAIL, USE IT EVERY TIME YOU LOAD.

A witness mark is a visiable ring or mark around your ramrod. You create this ring after the bullet is properly seated in the barrel on your desired propellant charge. You leave the ramrod in the barrel atop the bullet, then scribe a ring on the rod where it meets the barrel opening. Make the mark visible to see all the way around your ramrod, at the barrel opening. If you have an aluminum ramrod, you can use a file or dremel tool to scribe it but, NOT WHILE ITS IN THE BARREL, as you'll mar/scratch the barrel. You need a mark that will last and remain visible.

Use this mark every time you load your rifle and be sure it is in the identical spot at the muzzle every time you load. This will help to assure you have the correct load and the bullet seated fully, with no air gaps between the propellant and bullet. Any air gap between the bullet and propellant can be very dangerous to the shooter and/or rifle. Even the slightest gap, could cause the barrel to bulge, weakening the steel. ALWAYS, ALWAYS MAKE A WITNESS MARK ON YOUR RAMROD.

Good luck shoot'n! Post some target photos. Everybody likes target photos...

 

[marioq]

Here is picture one
I believe Rose told the story

 

[marioq]

Here is picture 2. Flyer is cuz old guy with dementia forgot that a rounded stock on a rounded mirror tends to make things slip!!!!
Hahahahahhss

 

[WildRose]

Here is picture 2. Flyer is cuz old guy with dementia forgot that a rounded stock on a rounded mirror tends to make things slip!!!!
Hahahahahhss

That's the nice thing about getting old and senile. When you claim, I don't remember doing that" people just laugh, shake their heads, and believe you.

Till a "friend" comes along and posts the evidence that is.... . HA!gun)

 

[WildRose]

Get yourself a photobucket account, then upload your photos. Click on the photo you'd like to share, then on the right there will be a bunch of "Link Shares". Click on the bottom IMG file and it automatically copies them. Then just do a paste in the forum you'd like to share the photo.

Because BH is so consistent in form and Western has provided the conversion, many do weigh their charges. When I was shooting production rifles, 75grs by weight (107 volume) was always a perfect charge with any of my rifles. Do your best to seat your bullets with the same amount of force with each load. It will take some practice, but making everything consistent will improve your groups. Its not that BH won't ignite with a light bullet seating force but, IMO you should seat the bullet hard as recommended.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: ONCE YOU DETERMINE WHICH CHARGE IS THE MOST ACCURATE WITH YOUR BULLET............. MAKE A WITNESS MARK ON YOUR RAMROD AND WITHOUT FAIL, USE IT EVERY TIME YOU LOAD.

A witness mark is a visiable ring or mark around your ramrod. You create this ring after the bullet is properly seated in the barrel on your desired propellant charge. You leave the ramrod in the barrel atop the bullet, then scribe a ring on the rod where it meets the barrel opening. Make the mark visible to see all the way around your ramrod, at the barrel opening. If you have an aluminum ramrod, you can use a file or dremel tool to scribe it but, NOT WHILE ITS IN THE BARREL, as you'll mar/scratch the barrel. You need a mark that will last and remain visible.

Use this mark every time you load your rifle and be sure it is in the identical spot at the muzzle every time you load. This will help to assure you have the correct load and the bullet seated fully, with no air gaps between the propellant and bullet. Any air gap between the bullet and propellant can be very dangerous to the shooter and/or rifle. Even the slightest gap, could cause the barrel to bulge, weakening the steel. ALWAYS, ALWAYS MAKE A WITNESS MARK ON YOUR RAMROD.

Good luck shoot'n! Post some target photos. Everybody likes target photos...

Thanks. My problem is that my phone is a PITA and I haven't figured out all of it's quirks yet. This is my first true "smart phone" and it's still several generations ahead of the user.

Besides that's why I keep Mario around LOL.

 

[WildRose]

I set the powder scale up last night and carefully measured out 110gr loads, enough to fill all my tubes. I'll probably go to the range and give it a whirl shooting from the bench later once I get the morning round of chores all completed. Then we'll see if I can hit an accuracy node.

First trip 110gr, 77 by weight.

Next trip we'll try 105, and follow that up with 107.

The 122gr definitely seemed to be a bit much and things opened up quite a bit.