Notes on the Centenerian

Shootin4fun said:
Ain't that the truth! I touched on this in my comments about people trying to prove that their abc can kill an XYZ. Eventually they bring up the fact that a .22LR can kill a mature buck. It gets me a bit rankled.
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If abc can kill xyz than what point are trying to make? If a 22 caliber projectile has enough energy to penetrate an animal and kill it, is that not enough to make it practical? You are saying you are allowing your biased opinion to get agitated when someone states a fact of the matter. Or you are saying 22 is not lethal enough, and a 30 or 40 or 50 is needed? Or maybe it's about the energy? Breaking it down tells us, as long as it penetrates enough it will kill if the shot is properly placed. There's no need to get upset about the fact that a 22LR could kill an adult deer. Many game animals were taken with small caliber rifles in the early days. From what I understand small calibar air rifles were used by some early American explorers to do the majority of game hunting. I believe Davey Crockett used a. 38 rifle, and was notoriously lethal in his harvest of game even though "real men" carried much larger caliber muskets on those days. No point in using a bigger hammer to do a job than necessary. When you shingle you don't want a framing hammer. I suppose if i was in grizzly country, I'd want a 45-50. Or high mountains I'd want a cartridge that could shoot 500 yards. Or some that shoots a mile in the mountains of Afghanistan.. You see my point. Guns are a tool, use one that works for you. Don't be delusional about the fact that if you don't place bullets into vitals no matter how powerful the cartridge is, it's not going to get the job done. And a miss is not going to help you, nor an extra X many pounds of rifle you have to lug around all day long. Or X more dollars in magnum cartridges spent, when a 30-30 can get the job done. We all have feelings from our experiences, but we have to remember not to confuse feelings with reality. Caliber bias is definitely one of those subjects, we have been fed marketing hype for so many years. A fun bit of trivia, go checkout the first 30-30 ads of you can find some and come back and share it with the rest of us. It was a "powerful" cartridge that could take "any American big game. " How many folks nowadays truly believe it cannot kill a bear or moose? I wonder how many large game animals were taken with 22-28 calibers?
 
didn't Herb Parsons use a .270 to shoot a crow out of the air at 1100 yards? Any one match that with a 'modern' cartridge? hmmm. A cartridge with a long neck is better than one with a short neck, and which of the great new cartridges gives you a neck longer than the caliber? Not many. But say what! They get to sell you more barrels! And hand loading is soooo dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So don't worry about seating those long bullets with the long boat tail into the case, just buy off the shelf. For me, I'll take a 6mm over a .243 every time.
 
JWM said:
didn't Herb Parsons use a .270 to shoot a crow out of the air at 1100 yards? Any one match that with a 'modern' cartridge? hmmm. A cartridge with a long neck is better than one with a short neck, and which of the great new cartridges gives you a neck longer than the caliber? Not many. But say what! They get to sell you more barrels! And hand loading is soooo dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So don't worry about seating those long bullets with the long boat tail into the case, just buy off the shelf. For me, I'll take a 6mm over a .243 every time.
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http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/11/wildcat-with-almost-no-neck-stan-wares-wicked-wolfpup/
 
MudRunner2005 said:
I'm not talking about straight-wall or belts... Let's not throw this off-topic. I'm referring to the shoulder angles, neck length, and wall taper. Even straight-wall cases are nearly straight wall... The .30-06 has super heavy wall taper, it's made for positive extraction, but that is not necessary with today's technology...Especially for bolt-action rifles not being used in dangerous situations.

You're grasping for straws for validity. Your arguments about gunpowder and foundations are valid, but nobody is disputing that, that's pretty common knowledge. But just like you said, "foundations"... Foundations are meant to be built upon...To improve upon. Which they have, considerably from JMB's original design of the .30-06 Sprg. and .50 BMG cases.
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baldhunter said:
I have to say,the big difference between what you can get out of either the 308 or 30-06 r'eally relies on the barrel and powder you run in either.Having both,my 26" barreled 308 was running around 2700fps with a 168gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with Varget.Tried Accurate 4064 and TAC and I found it was easy to get a little over 2800fps.I have a 22" barreled 30-06 struggles to get 2800fps with any powder I've tried with that same bullet.My 24" barreled 30-06's struggle to get 2900fps.My 28" PacNor barreled 30-06 can easily get over 3000fps.So it really depends.The 30-06 has a definite advantage over the 308,because the case is bigger.Anything you can burn in a 308,you can burn in the 30-06,but you can burn a lot of the slower powders with great results in the 30-06,but you would run out of room in the case for those slower powders in the 308 before you would get to a higher velocity.I would consider 4350 powder to be on the extreme slow side of powders for the 308,where Reloader-26 would be on the extreme slow side for the 30-06.So my thoughts on the two,it really depends......
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Love all the banter, I run a savage model 10. Tak,26 " barrel, running 175 lrx at 2900, with 52 grains of ww760, 210m, groups .125 at 100. If that does not work, I just use me 300wm.
 
rugers said:
No there is no difference same vel same bullet same bc equal same preformance
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Except it's not. As stated earlier; the difference, even though small, is a difference. New cartridges have been designed over their old counterparts with similar and sometimes smaller gains. Like 308 as much as you want, bigger case=more power. I'm not a special pleader for either but numbers don't lie. It's like saying the 300 Savage can do whatever the 308 can do. Close, but no cigar...
 
19elkhunter51 said:
Before I could afford a dedicated rifle for varmints I loaded 110 grain bullets in my
30-06 and was lead into buying a 22-250. When I started to hunt elk I loaded 180 bullets in the same rifle and was never let down. I hunted deer with that same rifle with 150 grain bullets and was pleased with the results. I was able to make all of these loads in my 30-06 shoot sub-moa at a hundred yards.
Over the years as my pocket book and desire allowed, I have purchased "game specific" rifles, 28-06 for deer and antelope and 300 RUM and 338 Edge for elk. I love all of these rifle/cartridge combos in their given use. Would I ever get rid of my 30-06's ?. Not on a bet!!!
I would agree with anyone who would take a one rifle philosophy using a 30-06. Are there other rifle/caliber options? Yes. Do they interest me? Some. Does the current
6.5 mania make any sense? Sure. If you want to shoot steel and deer at 200-300 yards.
I know. Us old guys just don't get it. Maybe. But make no mistake, the 30-06 is still the King of one rifle safes!!
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You can easily shoot steel out to 1000+ yards with 6.5C.
 
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