Nightforce SHV, Zeiss HD5 or Viper PST gen2
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mikea5232
Well-Known Member
Nightforce. I will be buying the shv this spring
I owned the zeiss hd5. I was lucky to have bought it from a great gunstore who let me return it after owning it a year, i traded up to an ATACR nightforce. But that scope spent more time at zeiss warranty than on my rifle. Also It's not a cold weather scope and it was on my coyote hunting rig. The power adjust would almost lock up solid in below freezing temps. That's the main reason why it was in warranty but it fogged internally during their testing so they sent me a brand new scope, which i returned back to the store. It had pretty good glass and it did seem to track like it should though.
I've owned some lower end vortex scopes, they got returned. Glass was poor and tough to sight in as the tracking was horrid. I'm sure their top end stuff is fine but i probably won't own any more of their stuff.
I owned the zeiss hd5. I was lucky to have bought it from a great gunstore who let me return it after owning it a year, i traded up to an ATACR nightforce. But that scope spent more time at zeiss warranty than on my rifle. Also It's not a cold weather scope and it was on my coyote hunting rig. The power adjust would almost lock up solid in below freezing temps. That's the main reason why it was in warranty but it fogged internally during their testing so they sent me a brand new scope, which i returned back to the store. It had pretty good glass and it did seem to track like it should though.
I've owned some lower end vortex scopes, they got returned. Glass was poor and tough to sight in as the tracking was horrid. I'm sure their top end stuff is fine but i probably won't own any more of their stuff.
Had two vortex scopes already and returned both after issues .one was a low level crossfire that my ruger deer field 44 destroyed twice and the other one was pst 6x24x50 and the glass was good at low zoom and not good at high zoom.i ended up getting a nightforce shv 5x20x56 moar illuminated .I am completely happy with the nightforce.i have the nightforce on a 7mm mag sendero and its my 1,000yard project gun.i was a big zeiss conquest fan but have since switched all of my hunting scopes to leupold vxr CDS and ballistic firedot scopes and find them the best scope for the $$$ IMHO
dmj
Well-Known Member
Don't have any experience with the vortex. Out of the other two I'd go with the shv. Seems to have decent glass, tracks well. The one thing I would say is the eye relief is a little bit on the short side and they are a little on the heavy side. You didn't mention your intended use or what kind of rifle it was going on. One scope that isn't in your list is the leupold vx6. They seem to get a lot of positive reviews. While I do have one I haven't used it yet so can't really comment on my personal experieince. There does seem to be some pretty good deals on them out there right now. Good luck and have fun.
Zeiss HD5, but only because I'm yet to try anything else, the Nightforce and Viper scopes at least. I'm using the Optical Conquest 5-25x50 Rapid-Z, which is one of the better Zeiss scopes, by the way.
If I were to choose a different scope... I would probably get the Viper PST. I don't know much about i, but I do know it's got argon filling, and that's kind of important in bad weather conditions, and a zero stop. Which is good.
If I were to choose a different scope... I would probably get the Viper PST. I don't know much about i, but I do know it's got argon filling, and that's kind of important in bad weather conditions, and a zero stop. Which is good.
I have an HD5, a Vortex HST, and sorta have a VX6. I say sorta because it was defective out of the box (misaligned lens), so it is with Leupold at the moment. I did not have it long enough to make a really strong comparison with my other scopes, but I have compared another VX6 to the HD5 in a non-lowlight setting in the past, and found them to be fairly equal. That said, low light is where the rubber hits the road.
Between the Vortex (not the gen 2) and the HD5, in low light, the 42mm HD5 easily beats my 50mm Vortex at any setting, even comparing the HD5 on max mag vs the vortex in the center of it's mag (15 pwer vs 15), the HD5 is significantly sharper, brighter and better to my eyes. And as someone mentioned already, I find the HST to be soft on it's top mags in any light, not so with the HD5.
I don't own a Nightforce. The ones I looked through were absolute tanks...seemingly indestructable, but very heavy. The SHV that is closest to my scopes weighs 30 oz...9-10 more than either the vx6 or the hd5. But then you could probably beat a rhino to death with a nighforce and still hold zero, from what I hear, at least with the atacr's. So that is a consideration. As far as their low light capability, can't say, I have heard both sides but have never had a chance to compare myself.
My scopes are for carry around rifles, so I prefer a lighter scope, except for the HST, which is on a target only rifle. In fact, I considered Swaros and VX3's for this reason, but rejected those for my purposes for a couple reasons. But they sure were light.
One thing I do like for the HD5 and the new VX6's...the turrets lock. On the HD5, it works for both windage and elevation, on the Leupold, only elevation, windage is capped. Some people don't care about this, but it's a nice peace of mind thing for me. (My VX6 did not come with a locking turret, Leupold is putting a two turn lock on it for me...but the newest models come with them).
Downside to the HD5 and Leupold....their zero stops kinda suck if you are going to shoot really long. The HD5's only gives you one turn...17 or 18 MOA. The new Leupolds have a two turn system, so you get 40 MOA, which is better. But you can't use that same system for windage, so you would have to remove caps or hold...which is fine as they have alot of good reticles for this.
The HD5 is a 1 inch...with zero lock turrets, weighs like 21 ounces. Mine has 75 MOA or total travel. The HST, can't remember the weight, but it was more...but its also a 6-24x50...has 70 MOA IIRC. The VX 6 weighs, I think 20 ounces or so....my particular one had 83 MOA. So as you can see....going to a 30 mm did not necessarily get me much, so it's not a downside to be in a 1 inch in this case.
Note that the new PST gen 2 is an unknown to me. I have to believe it's going to be lots better than the gen1's. I imagine they must have really improved the glass, but I don't know. I do know if weight is a concern, they are supposed to run about 28 oz for a 3-15.
Hope that helps!
Between the Vortex (not the gen 2) and the HD5, in low light, the 42mm HD5 easily beats my 50mm Vortex at any setting, even comparing the HD5 on max mag vs the vortex in the center of it's mag (15 pwer vs 15), the HD5 is significantly sharper, brighter and better to my eyes. And as someone mentioned already, I find the HST to be soft on it's top mags in any light, not so with the HD5.
I don't own a Nightforce. The ones I looked through were absolute tanks...seemingly indestructable, but very heavy. The SHV that is closest to my scopes weighs 30 oz...9-10 more than either the vx6 or the hd5. But then you could probably beat a rhino to death with a nighforce and still hold zero, from what I hear, at least with the atacr's. So that is a consideration. As far as their low light capability, can't say, I have heard both sides but have never had a chance to compare myself.
My scopes are for carry around rifles, so I prefer a lighter scope, except for the HST, which is on a target only rifle. In fact, I considered Swaros and VX3's for this reason, but rejected those for my purposes for a couple reasons. But they sure were light.
One thing I do like for the HD5 and the new VX6's...the turrets lock. On the HD5, it works for both windage and elevation, on the Leupold, only elevation, windage is capped. Some people don't care about this, but it's a nice peace of mind thing for me. (My VX6 did not come with a locking turret, Leupold is putting a two turn lock on it for me...but the newest models come with them).
Downside to the HD5 and Leupold....their zero stops kinda suck if you are going to shoot really long. The HD5's only gives you one turn...17 or 18 MOA. The new Leupolds have a two turn system, so you get 40 MOA, which is better. But you can't use that same system for windage, so you would have to remove caps or hold...which is fine as they have alot of good reticles for this.
The HD5 is a 1 inch...with zero lock turrets, weighs like 21 ounces. Mine has 75 MOA or total travel. The HST, can't remember the weight, but it was more...but its also a 6-24x50...has 70 MOA IIRC. The VX 6 weighs, I think 20 ounces or so....my particular one had 83 MOA. So as you can see....going to a 30 mm did not necessarily get me much, so it's not a downside to be in a 1 inch in this case.
Note that the new PST gen 2 is an unknown to me. I have to believe it's going to be lots better than the gen1's. I imagine they must have really improved the glass, but I don't know. I do know if weight is a concern, they are supposed to run about 28 oz for a 3-15.
Hope that helps!
Tesoro
Well-Known Member
Also me thinks you need to determine first whether you want a ffp or sfp scope. On your list only the viper is ffp.
I prefer ffp and the list narrows fast and I dont think you are going to get much in the 1 grand range for a ffp. I havent found one that I like. I have new a viper pst 6-24 gen1 that I am still tossing around to keep or not..its 'cheap' for a ffp but waiting for a clear day to see if the mist at high power was really magnified mist or just the optics!
You should look at what kind of shooting you will be doing vs ffp/sfp. With a sfp plan on dialing in each shot or being forced to shoot at high mag to be able to use your reticle for holdover. Thats the sfp way.
The ffp way gives you the ability to use your reticle for precise holdover at any mag and also dial it in if you wish just like with a sfp.
The new era scopes have pretty fine and even crosshairs when on high magnification with a ffp so I dont think that under most circumstances the subtension is going to be an issue by covering your target.
It seems like the ffp is a better pick for all around hunting/shooting. You can read on this subject till your mind spins but thats how I understand it. There is no debate that the europeans make the best optics and I believe all their high end hunting scopes are ffp. I have a swaro x5i and its tits in every way but its also 3 grand
A friend just got a nf shv and its a perfect scope for what its designed for. If it were ffp I would buy more than one for my ar's!
I also noticed that the new high end stuff coming out from NF is ffp. Gotta tell you something!
Hopefully you will find the scope that fits your needs that has the reticle you like! ha The more you learn about scopes the harder the choice!
I prefer ffp and the list narrows fast and I dont think you are going to get much in the 1 grand range for a ffp. I havent found one that I like. I have new a viper pst 6-24 gen1 that I am still tossing around to keep or not..its 'cheap' for a ffp but waiting for a clear day to see if the mist at high power was really magnified mist or just the optics!
You should look at what kind of shooting you will be doing vs ffp/sfp. With a sfp plan on dialing in each shot or being forced to shoot at high mag to be able to use your reticle for holdover. Thats the sfp way.
The ffp way gives you the ability to use your reticle for precise holdover at any mag and also dial it in if you wish just like with a sfp.
The new era scopes have pretty fine and even crosshairs when on high magnification with a ffp so I dont think that under most circumstances the subtension is going to be an issue by covering your target.
It seems like the ffp is a better pick for all around hunting/shooting. You can read on this subject till your mind spins but thats how I understand it. There is no debate that the europeans make the best optics and I believe all their high end hunting scopes are ffp. I have a swaro x5i and its tits in every way but its also 3 grand
A friend just got a nf shv and its a perfect scope for what its designed for. If it were ffp I would buy more than one for my ar's!
I also noticed that the new high end stuff coming out from NF is ffp. Gotta tell you something!
Hopefully you will find the scope that fits your needs that has the reticle you like! ha The more you learn about scopes the harder the choice!
Remtac
Well-Known Member
then PST GEN2 has by far better turrets then the other two , glass should be equal on all 3. PST GEN 2 has a true zero stop also has 24MOA per revolution of the turret also no need to unscrew turret caps.
Makaira
Well-Known Member
I am running the Zeiss HD 5's on several rifles and sold my Lepoulds.
I have used them on antelope in 100 degree heat and as low as -15 on a December deer tag and so far flawless.Running Kenton turrets on both a 257 bee and a 300wsm out to 650 yards on a Montana doe and so far very impressed for the $$, weight,and performance.
I have used them on antelope in 100 degree heat and as low as -15 on a December deer tag and so far flawless.Running Kenton turrets on both a 257 bee and a 300wsm out to 650 yards on a Montana doe and so far very impressed for the $$, weight,and performance.
Raven23TST
Member
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I have my shv 5x20x56 on a 7mm mag and it has plenty for me even at the highest magnification IMHO .i also like scopes with plenty of eye relief ,I have a vxr 4x12x50 on my 300 win mag and it has more than the spec suggest in eye relief .i would not be worried about the eye relief on the shv
Raven23TST
Member
- Joined
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I guess this has a half inch better relief than the FFP. I was wanting to buy the SHV FFP, which is 2.8-3.1 inches. I would love someone to be able to talk me out of the FFP or convince me that 3 inches is enough for a .300 win mag. If they did, I could just make this decision already.
On a hard kicker...I always want more eye relief. Had a 375 with an old Swaro way back....IIRC, it had about 3" of eye relief. Gun weighed about 10lbs or a bit more, but it still came back enough so every now and then, it would just kiss me above the eye. Not too hard, just enough to say hello and make me nervous.
I got rid of it. A 300 of the same weight would be more manageable, but if you are running a light setup...might not be so good.
Everyone is differently built too, and stock design and fit come into play....my rifles did not fit so well back then (another story) so I tended to crane my head forward alot to get my cheek down to the flat comb...causing my eyebrow/forehead to jut closer to the stock than other people might when my eye was lined up.
All that is to say...YMMV, but my experience wanted more than 3" on something that comes back a fair amount.
On FFP vs SFP...I prefer SFP, but then I grew up with it and also with old FFP reticles that got entirely too large for precise shooting at distance, at least the ones I was exposed to 20 years or so ago. Current designs, I believe, do not have this problem, the reticles are very fine at low power, so at top power they are not giant...that is they cover .1 MOA or whatever all the way through the focal range. Depending on the situation, there are some downsides to that, but everyone's needs and techniques are different. But I still prefer SFP because I do not use the reticle to range and I dial, don't like holding over. If I am shooting far enough to worry about wind, I am at max on my scope, so the windage marks will work on my VX6. My HD5, I have the lock turrets, so I just dial for wind. On my HST, I just dial. On the VX3i on my son's rifle, he has windplex, so he can dial for elevation and hold for wind.
Downside to this is holding over is definitely faster. But it's just not for me. I do have rifles where this is my only choice as they are not very repeatable, but I don't like it and am changing those scopes out for ones that I can dial reliably. But everyone is different. My probably most useful, and obvious, advice would be to make sure you go and look at the ones you are interested if you possibly can. That would probably give you your answer. You can see how they feel weight wise, see how close they are to your eye and get an idea of whether you think that will work, look at the reticles and see how they look at various zoom positions...etc. And perhaps most of all...see how they look...brightness, clarity, FOV, low light sharpness etc....
From what I have been reading (and it's all hearsay at this point) the new Vipers are supposed to be pretty great. Other than weight, they might be just what you are looking for. But hard to say just yet. Hope that helps!
After owning a few ffp scopes I have come to hate them .i hate how big the reticle is at high power and how small it is at low power .i only dial in for long shot but if I did decide to use the reticle in my scope for hold over on a long range shot the scope would be dialed all the way up already .for me there has never been a time where a ffp scope was better than a sfp while hunting.with a flat shoot round like a 300 win mag I feel a ffp scope would be pointless in the real world of hunting .matter of fact if someone tried to give me a ffp scope I would finally start a Facebook account so I could unfriend them . .
