New Scope

[42769vette]

You can buy this same scope for 279.00 over on Camera Land .... they are on sale. It is a **** fine scope and you can't go wrong with a Viper. It's the best scope for the buck and has been for years.

You can get a 6.5 - 20 x 50 for 470.00 or so.

the scope you are refering to at camera land is the vplex scope that is 279.

the above scope is the bdc version that runs 429.

but you are correct they are the best bang for your buck on the market in that price range

 

[Sako 75]

Being Canadian, buying a scope in the US is not worth the hassle. Camerland will not even bother selling me one as it is such a headache. Thanks for the input though.

 

[pyroducksx3]

You can buy this same scope for 279.00 over on Camera Land .... they are on sale. It is a **** fine scope and you can't go wrong with a Viper. It's the best scope for the buck and has been for years.

You can get a 6.5 - 20 x 50 for 470.00 or so.

You can not get this scope for 279$ The scope that was 279 was the v-plex reticle just the a regular x and they are sold out at least till the end of the month. And I am including the rings vortex/seekins, the vortex caps, and scope shade with shipping which is sinificantly cheaper than just the scope. Doesnt sound like he is interested but still thought I would set the facts straight

 

[lightwind]

Being as I am new to long range hunting I want to practice enough this year to be comfortable to 600yards. I will worry about stretching out further next year and beyond.I have owned my STW for years but have never actually practiced enough to feel comfortable at long range. The range I have gone to in years past was only out to 300 yards so that Is what I practiced to the new range goes out to 1000 yards. Does that help? My STW goes moose hunting also and shots generally are less than 50 yards so with 6 power being on the low end I do not think it would be optimal which is why I have steered towards 4-16 power

You are really stretching the limits of what you can buy for what you are asking. For instance, shooting moose at 50 yards requires low magnification (3X or less) to get a good picture of anything other than a patch of brown fur. For the shot at 1000 yards you need moderate magnification to see what you are shooting at. Also, to reach 1000 yards you need a mount with some cant to allow you to get a lot of travel in most scopes.

Depending on how good your eyes are you will need over 12X to do well at 1000 yards. A lot of great shots with great eyes can use 10X to hit a target at 1000 yards but I don't fit into that category. I need something around 20X. Having said that, there are scopes with a "large erector ratio" that can span the 3X - 18X range but they are not cheap. For instance, Swarovski makes a 3-18X50 that would span that range but they lack total travel and they cost a lot more than you are interested in spending. However, I would highly recommend that if you are looking for moose in the woods at less than 50 yards you really need a small magnification at the low end. Then the amount you are ready to spend might limit your high end magnification but you might also have good eyes. I would even lean toward a 2X or less for that short range shot.

Having said that, there are scopes like Minox 3-15X50 that you can get from some of the shops on this list like Camera Land. I recommend the scope have "side focus" which is really parallax adjustment when you are shooting both short range and long range. This Minox does:

Minox - Camera Land NY

I have the Minox 4-20X50 and like the optics a lot. However, 4X is a bit much for shooting shorter than 50 yards. I also have the Swarovski 3-18X50 Z6i and it is an outstanding scope but it will cost about 3 times the cost of the Minox. I also have a Swarovski 3.5-18X42 Z5 that is almost as good but not the same light for light gathering.

Again, shooting less than 50 yards requires low magnification for quick target acquisition. If you are shooting in very low light you will need illumination - but if you are not shooting at dusk or dawn you will not need the illumination. Illumination also adds to the cost (for instance, the cost of a Swarovski 3-18X50 Z6i with illumination is around $3000 whereas the Z6 without illumination is arround $2300). The Minox runs around $500.

Let us know how you fit this fits into your view of your needs or to get our view of specific scopes.

 

[Iron Worker]

So if you can't buy in the US where can you buy ? I like the Bushnell elite 6500 2.5x16x50mm its in that price range. No its not a Ziess or a Swarvoskie but I can hit tin cans with my 7 mm WSM if I have a spotter.

 

[Sako 75]

Thanks for all the info guy's. Going to have to review my budget on this. The paperwork and time involved in bring scopes / gun parts across the US / Canada border is ridiculous. I can by whatever as long as I buy it in Canada.

 

[lightwind]

Keep us informed. I know what you mean about hassels trying to get anything approved by any government. You should try to buy a suppressor here in the US. You have to buy it, fill out forms and send them in after it shows up. But you can't remove it from the FFL dealer you bought it from until the ATF sends a tax stamp back about 7 months later. Even getting one in now takes about 2 months from the manufacturer. So it is about 9 months from the time you order on until you can put it on your weapon.

I am very curious as to who you find in Canada that carries these scopes we have been recommending. You are not the only person from Canada who has asked about scopes. You can give us an idea of where to point them in the future.

It is too bad you can't get scopes from US companies because they have sales on outdated merchandise that I have found to be very good deals.

Thanks for giving us a chance to chime in with our view of scopes.

 

[Sako 75]

From what I have looked into the past week, there are several Vortex dealers up here but supply is low. The Vortex scopes seem to be hit and miss on quality also. If I up my price range which it sounds like I will have to, Leupold, Nightforce, Zeiss and Swarovski I can get from several hunting and shooting shops here in Calgary. Canadian Gun Nutz site like this one gives me access to many suppliers around the entire country. Once again thanks again for all the info.

 

[bruce_ventura]

This thread got sidetracked by the import issue. Now that that is over... If I were in the OPs shoes I think I would by a 20 MOA base and rings, a dedicated LR scope and a boresight collimator. There are plenty of decent scopes in the $400-500 range. I would stick to the basics and go with a mildot type reticle and turrets. Mil/mil or mil/MOA doesn't matter if you're starting out.

I would install the new base, rings and scope and run with that until the first moose hunt. Then I would install the boresight collimator, record my 100 yd zero, and switch scopes back to the 3-9X.

I've used an arbor type boresight collimator to change scopes several times. You have to change scopes without disturbing the collimator, so you need a good rifle vise and work area. When using a collimator this way, I can get within 1" of my previous 100 yd zero. You wouldn't have to confirm your zero for a moose hunt, but I would anyway. If you disturb the collimator and have to re-seat the arbor in the muzzle, you will end up being as much as 2-3" from your previous zero.

Also, I recommend you consider a Hawke Sidewinder 30 - very good glare performance and aberration correction. Much better than the Vortex Vipers in this regard. Sidewinder scopes also have low return rates and solid turret mechanical design.

 

[lightwind]

I am not sure how you are comparing your Hawke 30 to anything else, but I do have a quote from Ilya Koshkin's review of the scope:

"Hawke Sidewinder 30 is a good scope from a mechanical standpoint that has the worst glass I have seen in this price range recently"

You may or may not know who Ilya is, but he is a very good reviewer of scopes. Go google for Ilya and the Hawke 30 for the review. He likes the Vortex Vipers and, particularly the Viper PST. I have never tried a Hawke and I probably wont just based on the fact it comes out of China and I have never looked through a Chinese scope I liked. I'm not about to start on one when the better scopes come out of the US, Japan, or Germany. The Hawke review puts is right down at the bottom for image near BSA or other junk. I'm sure yours is great, but I won't be trading in my Swarovski for one. Maybe you want to compare it to a "counter sniper."

 

[bruce_ventura]

Hawke optical designs have evolved a lot during the last three years. Some of their initial rifle scope products were not great. Hawke now offers quite good optical performance in the Sidewinder and Endurance models. Their Frontier ED binos are outstanding.

I attend the SHOT Show every year for my work and get to spend time with most of the rifle scope products in the mid to high price range. I'm interested in discovering good value at an affordable price, and I report what I see with my own eyes. I don't parrot what other people say about optics products. I only speak about models that I have spent some time with under lighting conditions that let me do a decent evaluation. I also don't own either Hawke or Vortex products, so I don't have a bias between the two.

My recommendation to consider Hawke is based on my own observations with the product at the last three SHOT Shows. I've developed a method of evaluating chromatic aberration and glare performance using the bright overhead lights in the big hall at that show. I've found that the latest versions of Hawke Sidewinder 30 and Sidewinder TAC 30 scopes have above average optical performance for their price point. Vortex Vipers are average or slightly below average in glare performance, depending on the model. Average glare performance is not a problem for range or target shooting, but definitely something to consider for a hunting scope, if you have other options.

Lightwind quoted a review of an early Sidewinder 30 model by Ilya Koshkin. If you read all of the reviews on Hawke products by him you will find that he believes their optics have improved during the last three years, and he recommends the Sidewinder TAC 30 and Endurance 30 models that he reviewed.

My main complaint with Chinese made products has been quality control and the resulting high product return rates. That's a stigma that may fade away with time, just as it did for being made in Japan in the early sixties. Chinese made products are improving, but it's a big country with lots of factories. A few US and UK companies have found Chinese factories that produce high quality sport optics and maintain good quality control. Hawke and Zen-Ray Optics are examples. Their products have good value at their price-point (<$500 MAP).

I generally agree with lighwind that the "better scopes come out of the US, Japan or Germany" (Vortex Vipers are made in Philippines).

 

[Sako 75]

Thanks for all the info guy's, really giving me some things to things about and wishing I had an unlimited budget!! Really starting to contemplate not trying to use my STW as a multipurpose and just dedicate it to long range to simplify things. Secondly I think I am better off holding off and saving up to get a higher end scope, Leupold Mark 4, Nightforce ect...
I am putting the Swarovski Z5 (Thanks to my wife) on my Sako 75 Finnlight .270 WSM and setting it up to shoot for 500 yards. It is my go to Deer, antelope and sheep gun.

 

[lightwind]

You will not go wrong with the Swarovski. I have two and will probably pick up my third this summer. There are some great prices on the old Z6i models now that gen-2 are coming out.