New Rifle has me Perplexed

[Capt RB]

That is good info. I didn't realize that some Vanguards got the Krieger/Criterion barrels as well. My memory of those barrels was that they went on Mark V rifles, specifically the Accumark, but that is tapping into info I ran across about 10 years ago. If the rifle does indeed have one of those barrels on it, that makes it an even better buy and explains quite a bit. My other Criterion required little break in.

The 3 other vanguards I have shot, my S1 25-06 and 2 S2's in 7mm RM, have all been shooters. I like the new HACT trigger. Swapped the factory trigger for a Timney on my 25-06 after a trigger job didn't get me the clean trigger i was looking for. The trigger on this 308 is sweet though. Nice pull weight (but I don't need them super light), no discernible movement when you are breaking the shot. Really impressed all the way around with this rifle.

I have a box of 168 ELDM's I will play with first. Figure I will load the Federal GM brass, use Fed GM210M and have both H4895 and IMR 8208 XBR, both of which look like they should be in the ball park for 308 Win. Have a set of RCBS Gold Medal dies i picked up for a really good price. Will be my first experience with these dies from RCBS so looking forward to trying something else new.

Thanks for the reply,

FGMM brass is the similar weight as Lapua in the 308. It shoots the same charge weight to the same speed/barrel node. It just isn't as uniform or strong. I use 199 grains as my middle point and separate into higher and lower weights taking the +.1,-.1 grains of powder for every 5 grain of brass weight group off that mark with Rl15.

 

[imartin]

FGMM brass is the similar weight as Lapua in the 308. It shoots the same charge weight to the same speed/barrel node. It just isn't as uniform or strong. I use 199 grains as my middle point and separate into higher and lower weights taking the +.1,-.1 grains of powder for every 5 grain of brass weight group off that mark with Rl15.

That is good to know on the Fed vs Lapua brass, as I was looking at picking up Lapua cases to use once the Fed cases are shot. No RL 15 on hand at this point so I will stick with the powders I have, not worried about finding an accurate load with the two I listed. If you think the 178 ELD's will stabilize in the 1:12 twist, I would like to give them a shot. I'm pretty much at sea level and wasn't sure they would stabilize so figured the 168 would probably do everything I needed from this rifle, but I tend to lean towards heavier if given the option. Thanks for all the info, as this is my first 308 Win.

 

[Capt RB]

That is good to know on the Fed vs Lapua brass, as I was looking at picking up Lapua cases to use once the Fed cases are shot. No RL 15 on hand at this point so I will stick with the powders I have, not worried about finding an accurate load with the two I listed. If you think the 178 ELD's will stabilize in the 1:12 twist, I would like to give them a shot. I'm pretty much at sea level and wasn't sure they would stabilize so figured the 168 would probably do everything I needed from this rifle, but I tend to lean towards heavier if given the option. Thanks for all the info, as this is my first 308 Win.

My home range is 34' above sea level with no issues with those mentioned. I have shot the 195tmk's also but I have a slight gain twist from 12.7 to 12twist. These were at 800 and 1250ft in warmer weather

 

[Laelkhunter]

How old is the Bore Tech solvent? Is it possible it is too old to work on the copper in the barrel? Just a thought. I use Bore Tech also, and have never had it "go bad" or lose it's copper removing ability. If it is still good, then I would say you have a great barrel !!!

 

[imartin]

How old is the Bore Tech solvent? Is it possible it is too old to work on the copper in the barrel? Just a thought. I use Bore Tech also, and have never had it "go bad" or lose it's copper removing ability. If it is still good, then I would say you have a great barrel !!!

That's a good thought. It's a fresh bottle and has cleaned carbon and copper out of barrels recently. My previous bottle had been open for years and worked until the very last drop.

 

[javman]

Instead of trying to wrap your head around it you should count your blessings and roll with and be content. Just think of it as one less thing to worry about! Just saying.

 

[imartin]

Instead of trying to wrap your head around it you should count your blessings and roll with and be content. Just think of it as one less thing to worry about! Just saying.

I agree, definitely appears that I lucked out here. It just didn't make sense to me when I was at the range, as if I was missing something, or doing something wrong. Trust me, I would have loved to get on my soapbox and shout that Weatherby is the greatest, but this seemed to good to be true. And when that's the case, it usually is too good to be true.

 

[javman]

Awesome! Now go and enjoy the heck out of it. I bought a new CZ550 Varminter in 308 and broke it in with similar results and accuracy is outstanding with the 168Amax. It's one of my favorite guns to shoot.

 

[73driver]

Years ago, maybe 15 or so, I had a Weatherby Vanguard in 270W that had an issue. My gunsmith did some research and found out it had a Krieger barrel on it. So he calls Krieger to get help with the issue and the folks he talked to were adamant it was not a "Krieger" barrel but a barrel they made for Weatherby to Weatherby specks. BTW it turned out the factory loaded ammo might have been the problem because the primers were falling out after shooting.

 

[Glenn Tullius]

Two years ago I bought the Vanguard RC 6.5 CM. I did a recommended break in and NEVER saw copper, and I still don't after 50-100 rounds. The best custom barrels I have used that never show copper fouling are Hart barrels, and they are fantastic shooters, accuracy wise, as well. I don't think your experience is that uncommon. Just my 2cents. Good luck!

 

[JAYgs8163]

I experienced this on a Ruger Hawkeye 6.5 CM

 

[7stw]

I had a Savage 10 tactical, that seldom copper fouled, and as you, never copper fouled even when first fired, and I bought it new. Boretec patches came out black, not blue. After 20-30 firings, just a hint of blue. And that barrel was a shooter from day one as well. It a NICE problem to have!
All the best, be safe.

 

[jjmp]

Interesting thread cheers!

 

[imartin]

Update: put a borescope on it, things looked good to me but I'm an amateur when it comes to evaluating rifle bores. Shots 16-20 on the barrel pictured below. 200 yards using 168 gr SMK Fed GM. With a more suitable scope and a better nut behind the bolt, I'm sure this would be tighter, but I'm pretty happy for now. Going to clean it again and see what the patches look like after 10 rounds. If it's just carbon I will declare it good to go.