imartin
Well-Known Member
I recently purchased a Weatherby Vanguard TR Sub-MOA Series 1 (One, not Two) model off GunBroker for a price which rendered me incapable of keeping my trigger finger off the bid button. It was listed as New Old Stock, had some handling marks, but had not been sold (or shot) prior. The rifle is chambered for 308 Win, has a B&C Stock, a free-floated barrel that measures 22" long and around .700" at the muzzle, and has what I believe is a 1:12" twist. The specific focus of this thread is the barrel.
As I do with any new (to me) rifle, I cleaned it and lubed it as needed before heading to the range. I clean my rifle bores with BoreTech Eliminator. This is pretty much the only solvent I use on my bores and works great for me. I usually start out by running 3 patches saturated with Eliminator, letting it sit for 10-15 minutes, then following with a saturated patch every 10 minutes, until i determine the job is done. I can't recall if I got any blue on the patches when I cleaned it out of the box, but I am guessing there was at least some. I did note that barrel cleaned easily and was smooth pushing a cotton patch with a .30 cal jag.
Last week I headed to the range for my usual barrel break-in/sight-in ritual. I was shooting Federal Gold Medal 168 SMK. My break-in process is to shoot 1 shot, clean, repeat, until velocity becomes consistent, the cleaning gets easier, and/or there is little to no bluing on the patches during the cleaning process. I was expecting that this process would take 15 to 25 rounds being that it was a factory rifle with a chrome-moly barrel. I bore sighted the scope, took my first shot, noted where it was on the target, made my scope adjustments, and put the gun in a lead sled for some saturated patches of BoreTech Eliminator. Ran three patches down the bore and went to go shoot handguns. Came back 15 minutes later and followed up with another wet Eliminator patch.
To my surprise, there was no sign of copper on the patch, just carbon, and only a small amount since 3 wet patches had already been down the bore. So i ran 3 more saturated patches, let it sit another 10 minutes, more rounds through the handguns, and came back to an all but clean follow up patch.
While my brain could not quite accept that I had gotten little to no sign of copper after that first shot, i dried out the bore and chamber, put the rifle back on the bags, and took the second shot. Same cleaning process, very similar results.
Decided to shoot a 3 shot group thinking that for sure there would be copper fouling then. Nope, wrong again.
Shot a 5 shot group and went home. Cleaned it when I got home. No copper.
I started to wonder whether Federal is using a powder with a de-coppering (spelling?) agent such as the IMR Enduron line. I should note that I was a little bit confused when I was cleaning the barrel as I was never quite able to get a completely clean white patch to come out, it always had some crud on it, which reminded me of grease, almost brownish in color, as if I had never cleaned it from the factory. I could have been residual dirt off the nylon brush I was using at the range, but could this be a result of a powder that has a "copper eliminator agent" in it? Am I just seeing things because I can't wrap my head around the idea of there not being any copper out of a new barrel.
I'm slightly shocked and pretty confused. Have you guys ever experienced a factory rifle that did not copper foul at all right from the start like this. I mean, I am a big fan of Weatherby, I think the Howa built rifles are a fantastic rifle for the money, but I don't even expect this from aftermarket barrels and have never experienced this with a new barrel before.
Do you guys have any thoughts, opinions, experiences to share?
P.S. - I know it's only 10 shots, but I think this gun is going to be a shooter and an even better bargain than I expected. Can't wait to start tuning loads for it, but have 90 more rounds of Fed GM 168 SMK's I am going to put through it.
As I do with any new (to me) rifle, I cleaned it and lubed it as needed before heading to the range. I clean my rifle bores with BoreTech Eliminator. This is pretty much the only solvent I use on my bores and works great for me. I usually start out by running 3 patches saturated with Eliminator, letting it sit for 10-15 minutes, then following with a saturated patch every 10 minutes, until i determine the job is done. I can't recall if I got any blue on the patches when I cleaned it out of the box, but I am guessing there was at least some. I did note that barrel cleaned easily and was smooth pushing a cotton patch with a .30 cal jag.
Last week I headed to the range for my usual barrel break-in/sight-in ritual. I was shooting Federal Gold Medal 168 SMK. My break-in process is to shoot 1 shot, clean, repeat, until velocity becomes consistent, the cleaning gets easier, and/or there is little to no bluing on the patches during the cleaning process. I was expecting that this process would take 15 to 25 rounds being that it was a factory rifle with a chrome-moly barrel. I bore sighted the scope, took my first shot, noted where it was on the target, made my scope adjustments, and put the gun in a lead sled for some saturated patches of BoreTech Eliminator. Ran three patches down the bore and went to go shoot handguns. Came back 15 minutes later and followed up with another wet Eliminator patch.
To my surprise, there was no sign of copper on the patch, just carbon, and only a small amount since 3 wet patches had already been down the bore. So i ran 3 more saturated patches, let it sit another 10 minutes, more rounds through the handguns, and came back to an all but clean follow up patch.
While my brain could not quite accept that I had gotten little to no sign of copper after that first shot, i dried out the bore and chamber, put the rifle back on the bags, and took the second shot. Same cleaning process, very similar results.
Decided to shoot a 3 shot group thinking that for sure there would be copper fouling then. Nope, wrong again.
Shot a 5 shot group and went home. Cleaned it when I got home. No copper.
I started to wonder whether Federal is using a powder with a de-coppering (spelling?) agent such as the IMR Enduron line. I should note that I was a little bit confused when I was cleaning the barrel as I was never quite able to get a completely clean white patch to come out, it always had some crud on it, which reminded me of grease, almost brownish in color, as if I had never cleaned it from the factory. I could have been residual dirt off the nylon brush I was using at the range, but could this be a result of a powder that has a "copper eliminator agent" in it? Am I just seeing things because I can't wrap my head around the idea of there not being any copper out of a new barrel.
I'm slightly shocked and pretty confused. Have you guys ever experienced a factory rifle that did not copper foul at all right from the start like this. I mean, I am a big fan of Weatherby, I think the Howa built rifles are a fantastic rifle for the money, but I don't even expect this from aftermarket barrels and have never experienced this with a new barrel before.
Do you guys have any thoughts, opinions, experiences to share?
P.S. - I know it's only 10 shots, but I think this gun is going to be a shooter and an even better bargain than I expected. Can't wait to start tuning loads for it, but have 90 more rounds of Fed GM 168 SMK's I am going to put through it.
