Dutch Jennings
Well-Known Member
Only defensive 500 yard shot would be a stray Russian Su-25.
New Alaska Rifle Tips?
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bpcrshooter
Well-Known Member
45-70 with 500gr solids for the first in the shoulder, an 405gr hornadys to bring it down. the cartridge will stop anything on the continent (with proper shot placement) It may not be pretty and wizzbang fast but it will do the job!!!! put it in a 11lb rifle, recoil pad and let her drive!!
It will make a great back woods gun up there for everything big...moose, bears, buffalo, deer, etc
It will make a great back woods gun up there for everything big...moose, bears, buffalo, deer, etc
Consider this a COMPLAINT from a TURKEY hunter regarding those 3.5" loads! Just brutal out of an 8 lb Beretta Over and Under (686 with 3.5" chambers.) Two shots brought a tear to my eye. Jesus, what was I thinking? So THAT'S what a .460 Weatherby Magnum would feel like. Yeah...no thanks.
As I grow older and wiser I realize that all the 'payload' and 'kick' don't equate to better killing. Switched back to 2.75" shells and, whaddya know, turkeys STILL DIED. Amazing.
Also, refer back to post #4. I told you the "muzzle-brake" birds would chirp in telling you how great they are but...they are so LOUD. Very, very LOUD. Sighting in is hard on the shoulder? Then get a PAST recoil pad. When hunting you aren't likely to notice the kick (unless it's a 3.5" shell from an 8 lb 12 gauge...) I'm starting to wonder if the muzzle-brake guys are the same one's running straight pipes on their Harley's, too? Hmmm, seems a study is in order. (I'm KIDDING! Jesus...put the daggers away.)
Seriously, people find what works for them and that's a beautiful thing. I've fired 'braked' guns and they do kick less. But I'm just not willing to pay the 'toll' of hearing loss for that benefit. There are other ways to counter the recoil and I'm more willing to pay the 'price' for those things (weight increase of gun, mercury recoil reducer, suppressor, Limbsaver recoil pad, PAST shoulder pad, etc.)
ml williford
Well-Known Member
I shoot a 300 am a lot. Just put a top quality pad on it sir. You need a lot of gun for brown bear. I've got a Remington sendaro 300wm and love it. No brake just the quality pad and I'm not that big, 5'7" 182.
Dutch Jennings
Well-Known Member
Correct, always left handed. I was so ticked off about everything being set up for right handers in the military that I vowed never to shoot another gun that was NOT left handed once it was MY money buying the gun. My semi-auto pistols are the only exception and even my ARs are all lefty (well except for my AR-10 I suppose). I always encourage other lefties to buy LH guns too, because why NOT? This is America and we're still free, for now.
Dutch Jennings
Well-Known Member
I grew up shooting tons of pheasants with 12ga 3 inchers out of my Remington 1100 and deer with 12ga slugs out of my Remington 870. Doesn't bother me a bit. And for turkeys I've also backed those down to 2.75s and you're absolutely right. Never been much of one for muzzle devices, but for my 10.5" AR pistol, I made an exception LOL!Consider this a COMPLAINT from a TURKEY hunter regarding those 3.5" loads! Just brutal out of an 8 lb Beretta Over and Under (686 with 3.5" chambers.) Two shots brought a tear to my eye. Jesus, what was I thinking? So THAT'S what a .460 Weatherby Magnum would feel like. Yeah...no thanks.
As I grow older and wiser I realize that all the 'payload' and 'kick' don't equate to better killing. Switched back to 2.75" shells and, whaddya know, turkeys STILL DIED. Amazing.
Also, refer back to post #4. I told you the "muzzle-brake" birds would chirp in telling you how great they are but...they are so LOUD. Very, very LOUD. Sighting in is hard on the shoulder? Then get a PAST recoil pad. When hunting you aren't likely to notice the kick (unless it's a 3.5" shell from an 8 lb 12 gauge...) I'm starting to wonder if the muzzle-brake guys are the same one's running straight pipes on their Harley's, too? Hmmm, seems a study is in order. (I'm KIDDING! Jesus...put the daggers away.)
Seriously, people find what works for them and that's a beautiful thing. I've fired 'braked' guns and they do kick less. But I'm just not willing to pay the 'toll' of hearing loss for that benefit. There are other ways to counter the recoil and I'm more willing to pay the 'price' for those things (weight increase of gun, mercury recoil reducer, suppressor, Limbsaver recoil pad, PAST shoulder pad, etc.)
Harvey Durham
Well-Known Member
Honestly I think both are to small for a brown bear. If a brown bear is what your getting a gun for, get a .338 Lapua and be done with it.
I suggest you consider a Marlin 1895 in 45-70. Bears are pretty tough, a big bore is appropriate
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
I can understand that. SP-1's w/o the case deflector graze my right cheek about every third case. Some more often than others. Some more than an easy graze than others.
In a way I guess that I'm letting down other lefties in not buying LH rifles, but I'm not sure that I'd know HOW to shoot a LH rifle.
COBrad
Well-Known Member
I spent just two weeks up there on a Dall Sheep/grizzly hunt... as an assistant to the client. He had a disability so I was recruited to carry most of the weight he would have. One of the guides carried a .375 H&H and the other an '06 shooting heavy bullets. I carried a pack and stayed behind them. I've shot a lot of elk with various .300's and 200 grain bullets. I can tell you they are killing machines. I would carry that for big bears with confidence. A proper shot from a lesser round is far deadlier than a bad shot from a powerhouse cartridge. FWIW I once ordered an ultra light .338 Win from MG Arms. It weighed about 6.5 lbs scoped, but the muzzle break they made for it made it far more pleasant to shoot than my .300's. Unfortunately it was the poorest custom rifle I've ever owned. My Kimbers were far better rifles, but that's a different story...
Guides I've talked with recommend AT LEAST a .338 Win for brown bear. A 7MM Rem is definitely NOT adequate for that game. Yes a 7 mag will kill a bear, but it might not do so quickly enough to keep the bear from killing you.
Unless you buy a very light rifle, recoil on a scoped .300 mag or even a .375 H&H is a non-issue. I was apprehensive when I bought a used Sako stainless in .375 H&H and took it outside to shoot before I even put a scope on it so I could see what the recoil was like. The felt recoil was about the same as a 20 gauge shotgun. It was noticeable, but not at all punishing. I was VERY relieved.
I contrast that recoil to the very light Remington SPS Stainless .270 WSM I traded for a while back. It's felt recoil is PUNISHING — so much so I don't use it. I could comfortably shoot my .300 Weatherby Alaskan on a bench all day if I wanted to burn up $5,000 worth of ammunition, but I wouldn't want to go through 2 boxes of ammunition in that .270 WSM. The difference is WEIGHT and STOCK DESIGN.
If you are going to hunt brown bears, use a gun that will put the beast on the ground fast. To me that means AT LEAST a .375 H&H. Since I know a full sized rifle in .375 H&H does not have punishing recoil, I see no reason to go smaller.
Good hunting!
Lee Goodwin
Well-Known Member
I like my M77 .338 with that old red recoil pad. Makes a nice hole. The cartridge weighs more than my uh...
Anyway, I vote 338...retinal detachment be damned.
Anyway, I vote 338...retinal detachment be damned.
Big bears...who really gets to hunt them anyway? But apparently, every now and again, one decides to hunt people, so I don't think dorking around in the woods of Alaska with a .243 Win makes much sense. But for every guy that says ".300 Mag is the MINIMUM!" there is another guy saying ".338 Win Mag is the MINIMUM!" (or Lapua), to which the next guy says ".375 H&H is the MINIMUM" to which another guy will say, "Nothing less than a caliber that begins with '4' is the MINIMUM".
I say this because I saw it happen in the thread about the guy going sheep hunting in Montana and wanting to get a nice, light 6.5 something or 'nother for his hunt, but he was concerned about coming across a big bear. Before that thread was over, there were people pushing him to carry a .375 H&H...for his sheep hunt, in the OFF chance he SAW a bear. <SIGH> What can you say? The guy that recommends the .50 BMG 'wins' because there is no doubt IT will work, even if you hit the bear in it's pinky toe (apparently) and there isn't anything bigger, so you can't go wrong.
Does anyone remember the dude saving his life from a big bear with a 9mm shooting hot loaded SWCs? Not that I'm advocating for the 9mm as your 'perfect' defense load for big bears, but if THAT caliber was able to do it, I'm pretty sure a 200 grain Partition from a .30-06 won't make Mr. Bruin just say 'ouch' and come kill ya. I could be wrong. We all figure out our risk tolerance level and work from there. (And further research shows FOUR people successfully used a 9mm to protect themselves!)
Just to give folks that are interested something to consider, here are 37 instances when a handgun was used in self-defense against bears (see URL below.) 36 times they were successful. Only one time did the handgun fail to stop the attack. Reading all that makes me feel better and better about the OP carrying that 'old' .30-06 Springfield being able to do the deed...(especially if he carried a Glock or XD 10mm holding 15 rounds of 200gr SWC as a plan B):
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5qPjqhfal
I say this because I saw it happen in the thread about the guy going sheep hunting in Montana and wanting to get a nice, light 6.5 something or 'nother for his hunt, but he was concerned about coming across a big bear. Before that thread was over, there were people pushing him to carry a .375 H&H...for his sheep hunt, in the OFF chance he SAW a bear. <SIGH> What can you say? The guy that recommends the .50 BMG 'wins' because there is no doubt IT will work, even if you hit the bear in it's pinky toe (apparently) and there isn't anything bigger, so you can't go wrong.
Does anyone remember the dude saving his life from a big bear with a 9mm shooting hot loaded SWCs? Not that I'm advocating for the 9mm as your 'perfect' defense load for big bears, but if THAT caliber was able to do it, I'm pretty sure a 200 grain Partition from a .30-06 won't make Mr. Bruin just say 'ouch' and come kill ya. I could be wrong. We all figure out our risk tolerance level and work from there. (And further research shows FOUR people successfully used a 9mm to protect themselves!)
Just to give folks that are interested something to consider, here are 37 instances when a handgun was used in self-defense against bears (see URL below.) 36 times they were successful. Only one time did the handgun fail to stop the attack. Reading all that makes me feel better and better about the OP carrying that 'old' .30-06 Springfield being able to do the deed...(especially if he carried a Glock or XD 10mm holding 15 rounds of 200gr SWC as a plan B):
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5qPjqhfal
Cold Trigger Finger
Well-Known Member
Alot of natives have gone to the 338 for moose. It tends to put them on the ground a bit sooner than the 30s. The 338 is easy to master. Mine is a Kimber Montana. Nice and light and has a light weight long barrel. Its lively when I touch it off but not bad. Really nice general purpose Alaskan big game rifle.
The 375 Ruger Guide Gun/Rifle is about as good as it gets for general purpose big game rifle up here.
I traded my most recent one for a 416 Rem mag. Because I really love the 416 Rem. This one is my 3rd and hopefully my last as its really sweet.
For me brown bear/grizzly are all around 100% funner if taken at bow range with a heavy rifle ! It would have to be an extreme situation to take my first shot at long range than 50 yards. And the last one I shot was at 47 feet when I body slammed him. I don't think I've ever shot one at over 30 yards. And have started at less than 25 feet. I did kill a black bear at nearly 100 yards
