cohunt
Well-Known Member
1x fired brass from a different rifle, bet your gonna either need the Larry Willis die or new brass to completely remedy this issue
Need some help, very confused, trying to load some hammer hunters
- Thread starter BeaverHunter
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
BeaverHunter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2017
- Messages
- 251
Yea, I'm thinking using some new Nosler brass and firing/developing it in this rifle is probably the easiest fix. I'm going to load a bullet in a piece of new brass and see if I have any of these issues.
bob4
Well-Known Member
Can't wait to hear the outcome of his issue.
EDIT: Well crap! I see you posted as I was typing and yelling at dogs.
I might guess this is the issue. There has to be some measurable difference in the brass that fits and that doesn't. New brass or a collet die as mentioned earlier. I might take a factory round shoot it. Then rechamber that piece of brass right there. If it rechambers fine now go resize it. If it still chambers again get the collet die or new brass. I've never had to try the collet die as I only have 1 300 win mag but I've read about it on more than 1 occasion.
EDIT: Well crap! I see you posted as I was typing and yelling at dogs.
truck driver
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2012
- Messages
- 168
You may have just told us your problem.
You say your using brass fired in a different rifle.
I have 2 338 Win, one a Ruger M77 Hawkeye Stainless the other a Winchester M70 Classic. The Ruger was purchased before the Win M70.
After fire forming 10 cases to get a H2O Cap I load some brass that had been fired in the Ruger and went to the range.
I didn't check the ammo for function in the M70 prior to going which was my mistake. You got it the ammo with brass fired in the Ruger wouldn't fit in my chamber and returned home.
Checked everything and the measurements where all with in specs.
Something told me to measure the belt on the ammo shot in each rifle.
The belt on the brass fired in the Ruger was .0005" larger then the M70 brass.
Could be where your problem is.
As reamers wear the chamber specs on each barrel changes so even though it may still be in spec the brass could have been fired in a larger chamber and is something that can't be corrected.
Picking up used belted brass has it's own set of problems.
When you get a chance measure the ones that fit your chamber and the ones that are tight or the bolt won't close on and I'll bet even money the belt is enlarged enough to make the difference.
You say your using brass fired in a different rifle.
I have 2 338 Win, one a Ruger M77 Hawkeye Stainless the other a Winchester M70 Classic. The Ruger was purchased before the Win M70.
After fire forming 10 cases to get a H2O Cap I load some brass that had been fired in the Ruger and went to the range.
I didn't check the ammo for function in the M70 prior to going which was my mistake. You got it the ammo with brass fired in the Ruger wouldn't fit in my chamber and returned home.
Checked everything and the measurements where all with in specs.
Something told me to measure the belt on the ammo shot in each rifle.
The belt on the brass fired in the Ruger was .0005" larger then the M70 brass.
Could be where your problem is.
As reamers wear the chamber specs on each barrel changes so even though it may still be in spec the brass could have been fired in a larger chamber and is something that can't be corrected.
Picking up used belted brass has it's own set of problems.
When you get a chance measure the ones that fit your chamber and the ones that are tight or the bolt won't close on and I'll bet even money the belt is enlarged enough to make the difference.
NEMTHunter
Well-Known Member
One more thing to think about. When you full length resize are you getting a good cam over when the handle of the press is in the fully down position?
Is your FL sizer die set deep enough so the press cams over with some pressure? If not try adjusting the die for such. Most die company's require a good solid came over before trying to size the brass.
If its not a good cam over when you start running brass through it you will not get a consistent shoulder set back. A good solid cam over helps with consistency.
Is your FL sizer die set deep enough so the press cams over with some pressure? If not try adjusting the die for such. Most die company's require a good solid came over before trying to size the brass.
If its not a good cam over when you start running brass through it you will not get a consistent shoulder set back. A good solid cam over helps with consistency.
BeaverHunter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2017
- Messages
- 251
I thought about that late last night also so I found a piece of brass that wouldn't chamber and adjusted my die down so I had a good cam over and it still wouldn't chamber. I then adjusted it down even more(to the extent that there was almost a pop when it would cam over) and it would chamber but not easily. I'm going to try this on another piece or two when I get home tonight to see if that fixes the brass issue. But based on how aggressive it was caming over, I don't think that's the issue. But maybe
NEMTHunter
Well-Known Member
Maybe its time to anneal the brass. Work hardened brass can also cause this to happen. Some will be harder and are more likely to spring back and the softer ones will stay where you put them. Some brass new is hard and needs annealing.
If all else fails and its just not letting the brass go far enough into the die you might need to modify your shell holder to let the brass go deeper in the die.
Your problem can be fixed. I feel it is a simple on at that.
Dr. Vette
Well-Known Member
As has been mentioned more than once here, when you go to check a piece of brass, color it with a black Sharpie first. Do it to a couple of them if you want. Obviously, let them dry first. Include the one you last sized with the heavy cam-over.
You would be amazed what they will show you with regard to where your problem is occurring.
The Willis collet die is very useful if you are taking brass fired in rifle X and now using it in rifle Y. I make sure I check each piece that is "moving rifles" to be sure they will fit. The Willis die has a gauge on the end of it that makes this easy to do.
Keep us informed as to what you find out.
You would be amazed what they will show you with regard to where your problem is occurring.
The Willis collet die is very useful if you are taking brass fired in rifle X and now using it in rifle Y. I make sure I check each piece that is "moving rifles" to be sure they will fit. The Willis die has a gauge on the end of it that makes this easy to do.
Keep us informed as to what you find out.
Yup, you can figure it out by a process of elimination. Try a new, empty case. If that chambers, full length size it. If that chambers, load a bullet (no powder or primer). If that chambers, put a primer in it and see if that chambers. If it does, immediately pull the bullet and resize the case so it doesn't find it's way back with real cartridges. Then make a real cartridge and see if it chambers. Shoot it, resize, reload and see if that works. Assuming all that worked, throw out that old brass that was messing you up.
As others have mentioned, using somebody else's once-fired brass in a belted case can jimmy up the process, as a lot of dies don't resize all the way down to the belt. Snag you some new brass and start anew.
As others have mentioned, using somebody else's once-fired brass in a belted case can jimmy up the process, as a lot of dies don't resize all the way down to the belt. Snag you some new brass and start anew.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I think everyone has this pretty well lined out. As @bigngreen said, take care of one thing at a time.
I like your idea of using a new piece of brass to figure out the seating depth. Did you ever see marks on the bullet from the lands hitting it? The will no mistaking the marks. This the only way I do it. Seat the bullet out and run it in the chamber, with a piece of brass that fits. If the bolt does not go all the way in, pull it out, and you should see marks on the bullet from the lands hitting it. You can look at how far the bolt has to go forward in order to cam closed. If it is quite a ways from being able to cam closed your throat is not nearly long enough to seat that far out. Start seating the bullet shorter till the bolt can close without putting a mark on the bullet. Once you have snuck up on the lands in this way, then set your seating depth a 1/4 turn deeper on your RCBS and you will be very close to 20 thou off the lands.
This in my opinion is the best way to figure out max seating depth. No need for gauges. Our bullets are always going to be the same size so just measure case overall length (base to bullet tip) and be done with it.
I like your idea of using a new piece of brass to figure out the seating depth. Did you ever see marks on the bullet from the lands hitting it? The will no mistaking the marks. This the only way I do it. Seat the bullet out and run it in the chamber, with a piece of brass that fits. If the bolt does not go all the way in, pull it out, and you should see marks on the bullet from the lands hitting it. You can look at how far the bolt has to go forward in order to cam closed. If it is quite a ways from being able to cam closed your throat is not nearly long enough to seat that far out. Start seating the bullet shorter till the bolt can close without putting a mark on the bullet. Once you have snuck up on the lands in this way, then set your seating depth a 1/4 turn deeper on your RCBS and you will be very close to 20 thou off the lands.
This in my opinion is the best way to figure out max seating depth. No need for gauges. Our bullets are always going to be the same size so just measure case overall length (base to bullet tip) and be done with it.
Lots of stuff I missed in my first reply.
You say your brass is from a different rifle. That's NEVER a good idea without a **** good set of dies and lots of Cam Over on the press. Cheap dies and a cheap press are a recipe for problems. As someone else said, use a fired brass from this rifle to trouble shoot.
Your Browning chamber could also be undersize if the reamer that cut the chamber was worn out and resharpened too many times. (but not likely) Note that the SAAMI specs for chambers and for brass are different for a reason.
I looked up your hammer bullets. I am very leery of that swaged base design..... It might be fine, but it could also be a problem.
You say your brass is from a different rifle. That's NEVER a good idea without a **** good set of dies and lots of Cam Over on the press. Cheap dies and a cheap press are a recipe for problems. As someone else said, use a fired brass from this rifle to trouble shoot.
Your Browning chamber could also be undersize if the reamer that cut the chamber was worn out and resharpened too many times. (but not likely) Note that the SAAMI specs for chambers and for brass are different for a reason.
I looked up your hammer bullets. I am very leery of that swaged base design..... It might be fine, but it could also be a problem.
cre8alegacy
Member
It does seem your problem likely stems from brass fire formed in a different gun. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, if you zoom in on your comparison photo, the shoulder lengths do seem markedly different. Measuring shoulder to base or shoulder to top of belt on some of this fired brass (go vs no-go) should highlight the problem enough even if you don't have a .40 comparator to check datum measurements.
You might try taking one of those unloaded cases that close,but difficultly so, and polish it before trying it again. Careful inspection after that second attempt may show where the case is binding.
PS: I like using Flitz metal polish, does a great job. I have a Sinclair case holder adapter I use with a drill for this and you can polish a whole tray of cases in a few minutes with a soft cotton cloth. I'm compulsive I guess, but I like having clean, nice looking reloads anyway - everything always works smoothly that way and you find flaws easily.
Oops, just noticed Dr Vette mentioned a similar option! Don't get discouraged, I've found that trying to diagnose a problem has taught me more than anything in my reloading experiences.
You might try taking one of those unloaded cases that close,but difficultly so, and polish it before trying it again. Careful inspection after that second attempt may show where the case is binding.
PS: I like using Flitz metal polish, does a great job. I have a Sinclair case holder adapter I use with a drill for this and you can polish a whole tray of cases in a few minutes with a soft cotton cloth. I'm compulsive I guess, but I like having clean, nice looking reloads anyway - everything always works smoothly that way and you find flaws easily.
Oops, just noticed Dr Vette mentioned a similar option! Don't get discouraged, I've found that trying to diagnose a problem has taught me more than anything in my reloading experiences.
BeaverHunter
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2017
- Messages
- 251
I agree with many of you about using the new brass. In hindsight I wish I would have just started with that. Just an FYI, this once fired brass wasnt some unknown brass, it was once fired by me in another 300 win I own. And I thought is was good quality being Nosler and I'm using RCBS dies so not the lowest quality out there. Thanks again for everybodys help. I'll let you all know what I find out tonight.
