Need help reloading

[QuietTexan]

I have just noticed with most of my reloading manuals they are very conservative on the charge weights and I haven't hit any pressure signs at max charges in the books. So I avoid the minimum to mid range all together.

I agree with you on this. You specifically mentioned using Hornady data, and I agree 100% that their bottom end data isn't just conservative, it's stupid. I use 90-93% of a given source's max as a starting load comparison to other data sources, you have to with Hornady because their charts go below what's reasonable. Sierra lists low velocity loads in the same manner they list high pressure loads, so there I use the lowest-not-orange-starred (their marker for low velocity) loads as a comparison for starting loads.

If I'm entirely new to a powder, I'll start at a consensus starting load from multiple sources, but then move up in larger increments to 90-93% of max before changing over to running 0.1-0.3gn increments for the rest of the ladder.

You're on the right track now

And I'm sorry we've reached the point where a tread titled "Need Help Reloading" has devolved into questioning your shooting skills. I develop my loads from a bench using rests. Most people do. 100 yard ranges with shooting benches, concrete aprons, and metal covers were built for a reason. If you can shoot under MOA from a bench in general, you can work on your loads from the bench also. The "shoving myself under a log in a rainstorm to practice field position shooting" part of the load development process comes after the bench work

 

[a_savage02]

i was able to find some barnes precision match ammo yesterday with the 112 barnes match burner bullets. To test accuracy with some factory ammo. Has anyone used any of these before. One of the reasons i bought them was because I have 500 Barnes Match Burners for reloading and I was thinking I could try and duplicate the load if I find they shoot good. I also have some hornady match ammo I will try also.

 

[QuietTexan]

The Barnes loaded match ammo seems to be middle of the pack in terms of quality. This is the 6.5CM test but they presumably load all their match ammo to the same tolerances:

6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Part 3: Live-Fire Muzzle Velocity & Consistency Summary

Welcome to Part 3 of the results of a massive 6.5 Creedmoor ammo field test, where I tested multipl...

precisionrifleblog.com

6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Part 5: Live-Fire Group Sizes & Precision

Welcome to Part 5 of the results from my massive 6.5 Creedmoor ammo field test! This article wil...

precisionrifleblog.com

I use Barnes Match Burners, they're fine. I shoot them from a factory rifle so I don't go crazy sorting them, and I can get one hole accuracy from them. I can also scatter them into 3" groups at 100 yards, so we'll call that "tuneability" .

 

[gregmark24]

a_Savage 02: There is a lot of great info here in 9 pages of reading threads. At some point, could you give us a summary of where you started at, what the pointers were that helped, what you've learned, and where you're currently at with all of this, and what your next steps are? I'm new to reloading with a 243 and 6.5 CM, and am trying to get an understanding on ALL the independent variables and which are the most critical. For instance, it would appear to me that with picking one large rifle (non magnum) primer to use (all in the same lot number) for both your 6mm and 6.5 mm CM would be good. Then, experiment with powder charges and the OAL. Do longer OAL's cause problems fitting in your magazines? Crimping? My first thought is that if you're having reload problems on BOTH rifles, and don't have match grade ammo available, that the problem is likely not the rifle(s), but more likely the reloads. Along those lines, if someone could come back here with all the variables, and order them as to importance, great!

 

[greenejc]

I started reloading probably ten years ago. Not knowing anything about reloading or having anyone to teach me Iv just been doing a lot of research on my own. I took a break for a while do to work and recently got back into it about two years ago. And started doing load development for rifles I own. 6mm creedmoor 6.5 creedmoor Iv built a custom 30-06 that I have had by best results with so far. But I feel like I'm chasing my tail with me 6mm creedmoor and 6.5 creedmoor. Iv had had bad as Es of 130 and sd's in the 50's. Finally thought I found a descent lol in my 6mm creedmoor with sd's of 13 and es of 30. But went and shot some groups and the were 2" plus at 100 yards. With the 6mm creedmoor I was doing load development with a muzzle break on and took it off read that could have caused me accuracy because of barrel harmonics so I put it back on and haven't made it out to the range yet to try the loads again. Any help would be nice do to being a new reloaded. My process is a full length resize and bumping the shoulders back 1-2 thousands using and expander mandrel to set neck tension and for starters I seat the bullets .015 to .020 off the lands depending on mag length and everything.

Get a Lee and a Lyman reloading manual. They both have step by step instructions, and a list of necessary tools. Also, don't worry about SD's. Worry about accuracy at 200 and 300 yards.

 

[WildRose]

Get a Lee and a Lyman reloading manual. They both have step by step instructions, and a list of necessary tools. Also, don't worry about SD's. Worry about accuracy at 200 and 300 yards.

Both Good manuals, The Hornady manual is my "Reloading Bible" though.

 

[BigNate]

All the reloading tips in the world won't produce great accuracy without a solid rifle and good shooting basics.
I'm not saying the OP can't shoot as he asked for help with reloading. But IMHO, he has enough knowledge of reloading to be getting better results than he is. These nine pages of "help" have some good feedback. Don't be afraid to write down notes and ask yourself if you're satisfied you've addressed each thing.
Take good notes. They'll help with changing only one thing at a time, and consistency.

 

[a_savage02]

Just to update everyone that has been following along with this Journey made it to the range with the 6mm creedmoor haven't tried anyone of the new advice that was given to me yet do to having rounds already loaded that I needed to shoot. But what I did do was load up some 6mm creedmoor with some VV N-160 for ***** and giggles and man did my groups change. I loaded up 3 five shot groups all with different charge weights and all three groups were .6 ish moa or smaller at 100 years one group would have probably been a 1/4 group if It wasn't for me getting excited and pulling the last shot. So all in all I think staball 6.5 just isn't for me. I'll try and attach some pictures of my targets. I'm also completely confident that it can shoot even smaller groups with a better person behind the trigger.

 

[WildRose]

Just to update everyone that has been following along with this Journey made it to the range with the 6mm creedmoor haven't tried anyone of the new advice that was given to me yet do to having rounds already loaded that I needed to shoot. But what I did do was load up some 6mm creedmoor with some VV N-160 for ***** and giggles and man did my groups change. I loaded up 3 five shot groups all with different charge weights and all three groups were .6 ish moa or smaller at 100 years one group would have probably been a 1/4 group if It wasn't for me getting excited and pulling the last shot. So all in all I think staball 6.5 just isn't for me. I'll try and attach some pictures of my targets. I'm also completely confident that it can shoot even smaller groups with a better person behind the trigger.

I'd say you've found a winner.

 

[SouthLoganCountyShooter]

The 140 match burners like less then 5 thousands off lands. At 10 thousand my group size double. That's in 2 different rifles. And both my rifles like them pushed hard.

 

[nealm66]

I would shoot again at 200 and tune with seating. I suspect 200 isn't going to look great and groups will grow more than expected from there. Just a hunch from my own experience

 

[smokey3]

I explained myself wrong .5 over max is where I end when checking for pressure signs. I always start on lower charges and work my way up. Sorry for the confusion. I have just noticed with most of my reloading manuals they are very conservative on the charge weights and I haven't hit any pressure signs at max charges in the books. So I avoid the minimum to mid range all together. I also have noticed I don't start seeing pressure signs to .5-1 grain over in the manuals specially when I tried the VV N-160 powder in my 30-06 I think I was almost two grains over max before seeing pressure signs.

Ok, I did not comprehend what you were saying I guess. Reloading is a great hobby and most of us need to follow the manuals although some guys on here are very good at experimenting with newer powders and bullets and then passing that info on to the rest of us. With the price and availability of components now days, I don't do to much experimenting LOL.

 

[GrayCreed]

My process is both 6mm and 6.5mm I started with new brass. 6.5 I started with hornady brass half new and half factory ammo I shot and used. All brass has been fired 2x and is on it's third firing.

^^^^^this is your problem right here^^^^^
If you are going to use Hornady brass only use the same lot# from the box/bag of new brass never mix the once fired brass in. Hornady ammo has alot of variation in brass from box to box especially if it's different loads . I had this EXACT PROBLEM myself. I had 50 pieces of Hornady American Gunner, some American whitetail and some precision hunter. After having es/SD in the 20-100 range I noticed that I was getting SD of 9 off some reloaded S&B brass that was all the same lot of factory ammo (100rnds). I forked up the cash for Peterson brass and never looked back. All the Hornady brass is in a bin waiting to be melted down into a black powder Cannon. .
Your brass capacity (to include thickness and weight is the #1 contributor to good or bad es/SD.

 

[a_savage02]

Been a while sense I have been on here. So here is a little update. I have taken in a lot of what people have said on here and tried a few things. I honestly think one of my biggest problems was the way i was measuring powder. i brought out the trusty beam scale and noticed the way i was doing before was inconsistence. So i invested in a different powder measurer and i honestly check almost ever charge with the beam scale. My 6mm Creedmoor i just resized the whole batch with using the expander ball instead of the expander mandrel like butter bean suggested i have not loaded and shot them yet but we will see shortly. The 6mm creedmore seams to like the VV-N160 I have a box of 95gr Berger's left and then i will start load development for either 108 gr or some 112 grs that i have. Not sure powder i am going to use yet but i have a few choses. Seams like i am heading down the right path though know even going back to some of my old loads i developed that were not shooting that well and measuring them more consistently and or more accurate. i also have stepped away from the magneeto speed while trying to find something that shoots well and will check SD and ES after find good groups. i was really excited last time i went and shot the 6.5 creedmoor i was testing seating depths one last time with the 6.5 staball to give it one last chance before i decided to stop using it and i shot a 4 shot group that was almost all in the same hole probably under .25 moa. I don't know if i just got lucky or actually found something it likes but i haven't been able to get back out and reload some more and verify that but ill keep you guys updated. Again if you decided to post on here and provide input i appreciate all the help!!!