Need Advice on a Rifle

[Wallie]

I've got experience with one Ridgeline, and another CA carbon fiber barrel. A sample size of two is NOT conclusive, but I'll share my experience.
My first exposure was a 26" (finished length) 7mm carbon fiber wrapped blank that I chambered in 7LRM for a blueprinted 700. It was acceptably straight (muzzle runout when dialed in on the throat/chamber portion of the breach end) and reasonably consistent on minor bore diameter. Not as good in this regard as the Bartlien, Benchmark, Kreigers or Lija's I usually work with.
That barrel shoots the tightest groups I've ever seen, short of a 20lb+ bench type rifles with full profile (1.5" no taper) and kicks the crap of of every other sub 8lb rifle I've ever shot. Groups in the .2's, and it's not picky at ALL.
The 28 Nosler Ridgeline I just finished load development for is a different story. I finally (120 rounds later, on an 800 round life expectancy) got a consistent 1/2 minute load. I'm pretty good at load development, and I was close to giving up on this one. Three bullets (175 ELD-X, 175 ABLR, and 180 HVLD) and two powders (H1000 and Retumbo) later I finally found a combo that would do better than 1.5-2 minute with a huge ES (like 50-80 fps). I wasn't impressed with their chambering dimensions, but they weren't horrible, which leaves that barrel being a bit of a lemon.
The bedding was a joke, but the action is surprisingly nice, trigger is decent, and bottom metal is above average. I shelved the stock in favor of a manners because the forearm was so flexible I would've had to grind a huge barrel channel to ensure it remained free floating while loading a bipod. For the cost of the sum of its parts it seemed to be a decent value, but I was decidedly not pleased overall.

 

[longrangedude]

Here's my $.02. I have multiple custom rifles that I have had built by very reputable smiths, and have had great results with all of them - after proper load development. I also have several dead-stock factory rifles that shoot crazy good groups - after proper load development - and even in some cases after shooting Tubbs bore lapping bullets to knock down the huge ridges in the bore. I'm talking about 1/2 MOA or less groups at 100 yards and beyond. My 40+ year shooting / reloading / gun / competitive shooting / hunting experience tells me that today you can BUY and GREAT factory rifle and spend a fraction of the money of a custom rifle, and get it to shoot virtually like a high-dollar custom rifle, and then spend your $$$ on great optics / range finder / ballistic calculator / ammo. Working to get a better group than 1/2 MOA is a very wasted effort. Go talk to Bryan Litz about that. I just helped a buddy sight in his new Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag and he brought 180 Rem Core Lokt factory ammo - the most run-of-the-mill ammo on the planet - to the range. He had purchased a Vortex Viper PST Gen II scope and great Vortex rings and we bore sighted it and proceeded to shoot a 1/2 MOA group with that load with very good ES. Don't get me wrong - I am not advocating using this basic load / bullet for long range shooting or hunting but it makes the point - factory stuff - when paired properly - is dang good these days. The NEED for a high-priced gun is pretty much gone. Also, what is the purpose of use? Hunting? Then the Proof Research Barrel - even with the carbon fiber - is still about as heavy as a well-fluted SS barrel for a fraction of the cost from a Bartlein or such.

 

[tomsd]

Excellent review - totally agree.

 

[tomsd]

BTW - was going to buy that Vortex Viper scope (GREAT GLASS - A LITTLE CLEARER TO MY EYE THAN THE EQUIVALENT Leupold AND BURRIS - TESTED OUT AT A CABELA'S - geesh - that **** caps button) - and then got a super deal - 2 for 1 type on two Vortex scopes: One a 4.5-14 42MM - the next level down from the Viper - which is fine for my 300 Win Mag - hunting out to 600 yards - occasional 1,000 yard plate busting - and a nice 3x9 40 MM - to drop on my older Odd-Six. (Yes - I say Odd - others more properly say Ought. )

 

[tomsd]

BTW - was going to buy that Vortex Viper scope (GREAT GLASS - A LITTLE CLEARER TO MY EYE THAN THE EQUIVALENT Leupold AND BURRIS - TESTED OUT AT A CABELA'S - geesh - that **** caps button) - and then got a super deal - 2 for 1 type on two Vortex scopes: One a 4.5-14 42MM - the next level down from the Viper - which is fine for my 300 Win Mag - hunting out to 600 yards - occasional 1,000 yard plate busting - and a nice 3x9 40 MM - to drop on my older Odd-Six. (Yes - I say Odd - others more properly say Ought. )

 

[tomsd]

OOps - got a great deal on two Burris scopes - plenty fine for hunting.

 

[Joshua Huber]

Hello all. I have a friend at work who is debating on whether or not to build a custom .300 Win Mag with a SS barrel, or just buy a Christensen Arms rifle with their carbon fiber barrel. All of my rifles are custom with either Proof or Hart barrels. I have a local builder who is really good. He's been doing it for over 55 years. That's who he will go with, if he goes custom. I just don't know much about Christensen rifles at all. Are they good, sub half shooters? Can anyone give me pros/cons regarding their rifles? Thanks in advance for any and all help.

What specifically is your friend trying to do with the rifle? Hunting, target shooting, or plinking around in the back yard? Does he plan on carrying it around a lot or is he going to be stationary? Hard or soft targets?

 

[Jerrys kid]

Hello all. I have a friend at work who is debating on whether or not to build a custom .300 Win Mag with a SS barrel, or just buy a Christensen Arms rifle with their carbon fiber barrel. All of my rifles are custom with either Proof or Hart barrels. I have a local builder who is really good. He's been doing it for over 55 years. That's who he will go with, if he goes custom. I just don't know much about Christensen rifles at all. Are they good, sub half shooters? Can anyone give me pros/cons regarding their rifles? Thanks in advance for any and all help.

I would stay away from CA rifles. I had a rough experience with them and finally was able to get a refund. The rifle was lightweight indeed, but no more accurate than my stock Remy 7mm. The CA would not hold 1 moa with 168's or higher. (7mm). And the bolt was hard as hell to cycle.

 

[lyotehunter]

Our group has 4 savage rifles that shoot as good as any custom gun.yes were have custom guns also.just a way to save a lot of money. But status is part of it to.

 

[WildRose]

I would do neither. A Savage 6.5 284 Norma - 24" barrel in stainless and if your reloads don't group 1/2" then have a new barrel on it - 26" and run reloads through it to find what it likes. You can spend a whole lot of $$$$ if you want, but if it groups 1/2 in or less off a factory build, who cares? .30 cal has to go up too high in bullet weight to get the BC benefits that a 6.5 can. If you want more than 6.5, 7mm is nice for bullet weight and reaps high BC under 200 grain bullets. Why a 300 Win Mag?

The 6.5-284 really needs to be built on a long action. Otherwise you have serious limitations with existing bullets/loads and of course within two years it's almost a cinch we'll be seeing even heavier and longer 6.5's hitting the market.

 

[johnlittletree]

This showed up in my email not resurrecting this thread myself. My apprenticed to me an Automtive Technician in Germany. Got tired of that and when I moved back to the USA I worked for one year and decided I was off to University! My first 4 year degree was in Aviation Technology Material Sciences! I ended up working in automotive world for a long time.

So by what voodoo does what the barrel blank is wrapped in matter with regard to cold bore shot accuracy potential? How does the material the blank is wrapped in influence the interior machining dimensions and finish of the bore?

Oh before any even tries to claim it makes the barrel stiff in any significant way as compared to a barrel blank of identical exterior dimensions not wrapped in carbon fiber I can tell you that is bunk! If anyone tries to tell you otherwise they are either a liar or a fool.

Now could a case be made that such a barrel is stiffer then a blank of the same naked diameter before the barrel is wrapped? Yes an argument could be made for that and that alone. That said I would want to see 3rd party documentation extensive documentation!

Then I would want to see again 3rd party documentation showing that the marginal increase in stiffness if their even is can be tightly link as the causative factor in increase accuracy potential on cold bore shots off hand on moving or stationary targets and that given the normal limit of 3-5 rounds in most bolt action hunting rifles that it could affect those shots in a statistically significant way as well!

Since fighter planes and stealth aircraft do not use main guns with barrel manufactured in this way were weight is everything that tells you all you need to know. Even in places were weight is not everything and money is no object since tax payers and debt are funding things you still do not see this. No tanks or capital class ships have guns made in this way. Also last I checked no serious military has carbon fiber wrapped barrels in the hands of soldiers not even air born/Para/Speed roping/ air assault troops where weight is always an issue because you are operating aircraft and have no clue when you might be relived and resupplied so ounces and pounds are critical but so is durability and accuracy. Last I checked no snipers in active duty deployments have these either. Sure would be nice on a 50 BMG sniper weapon to shed some weight!

I could turn down an ER SHAW barrel and wrap in carbon fiber and it is not going to turn a "Sow's ear into a silk purse!" nothing against ER Shaw either but since they do not pin themselves down on their web site to anything remotely like a hard standard I picked them in this case for this example. So if that carbon wrapped barrel shot really well it would be because the interior finish and machining in general where well done.

Keeping in mind that our Military is known to grossly over pay for things and even they do not use this wallet lightener!

Now if you building an F1 car and you want it to be insanely light but still be able to hit a wall head on at close to 200 and not shatter the drivers legs then carbon fiber along with cardboard honey combs and such can be a fantastic combo. If you are building an aircraft where every gram impacts performance and you need an insanely light weight wing that is also very rigid again fantastic. I even like it's use in stocks when it makes sense in spite of the insane price point for carbon fiber.

I think Jesse James said it best one time on one of the shows he was a regular on " Welding more and more metal onto something is stupid in an attempt to make it stronger or more rigid that is "Redneck Engineering!". The point he was getting at is that you want to use any material smartly to get the most strength or rigidity etc... for the least amount of additional weight.

The final nail in the coffin is that BR guys do not regularly use this sort of barrel do they? How about F-Class is it the norm? What about Silhouette where you need to actually hold the rifle and shoot with no bench and no bipod? Surely the New Ultra Light Arms uses these right along with all you super expensive OEM hunting rifles? I know I am sure those high end African Custom Shops are using this as the norm right?

A pencil thin barrel if machined well and beded in the best way for it can have a cold bore shot accuracy every bit as good as a 12.9 pound barrel. Your heavier barrels only matter as they heat up the weight of a barrel has nothing to do with it cold bore shot potential. Now if you need to shoot 10, 20, 30 rounds in short time frame then added mass helps a lot with heat. Since this is a "Long Range Hunting" web sight my mind goes to hunting right away unless someone says it for F-Class or BR or P-Dogs from a bench etc....Long range hunting is either a bean field sort of situation or a mountain-valley situation most time. I have never seen a man take a 500m-1000m shot in dense brush in heavy woods! LOL Those pesky tree's get in the way!

If you look at the shooting sports you can quickly see what sort of gear is the norm and what brands seem to be in the winner circle the most. No I am not saying you need to go to competition levels on everything but you can rest assured that the favored boutique barrel makers would not be doing as much business as they do if people where not getting results consistently!

Assuming we are talking about well machined gear and a good barrel it is not tough to consistently get 1/2-1/4 MOA from a reworked WWII Mauser, premium barrel and hand loads. The nut working the lathe and end mill is super important!

 

[GMHVAC]

I got a special CA Ridgeline that was a special limited edition run chambered in 6.5 PRC. It's a shooter. Easy 1/2 MOA with 143 ELDX at 300 yds. It's a carbon wrap as well as is very light. I have no complaints with it and currently working on load devolpment.
I got a buddy who works at a local gun store and on occasion they will ballistically map them for a customer and he just raves about them constantly.

 

[Litehiker]

Rick R.,
i just bought a 6.5 CM Browning X-Bolt Pro "semi custom" rifle. That means it has features not found in less expensive X-Bolts;
->Stainless barreled action
->carbon fiber stock
->bronze Cerakote on metal and stock
->muzzle brake and thread cap
->factory lapped barrel
->fluted barrel and bolt and bolt handle

For $1,750. that's a lot of rifle. So yeah, a custom rifle has just exactly what you want but this rifle had just what i wanted, including a 3 lug bolt and for $1.000.less than a stainless SAKO 85 Carbonlight. Custom rifles ain't all where it's at when it comes to very nice rifles.

Eric B.

 

[tomsd]

Rick R.,
i just bought a 6.5 CM Browning X-Bolt Pro "semi custom" rifle. That means it has features not found in less expensive X-Bolts;
->Stainless barreled action
->carbon fiber stock
->bronze Cerakote on metal and stock
->muzzle brake and thread cap
->factory lapped barrel
->fluted barrel and bolt and bolt handle

For $1,750. that's a lot of rifle. So yeah, a custom rifle has just exactly what you want but this rifle had just what i wanted, including a 3 lug bolt and for $1.000.less than a stainless SAKO 85 Carbonlight. Custom rifles ain't all where it's at when it comes to very nice rifles.

Eric B.

I was looking at last year's Brownig - Shot Show dem/models - which were round $800 - basically the same rifle you just bought without ceracoke or the slightly improved stock? I wound up getting a very clean - little wear -used Weatherby Mark 5 - SS barrel - in .300 win mag - with Leuopold base already mounted - for $745 in my ole home town in Oregon. Haven't shot it yet - fingers crossed. It was made for Weatherby in 1995 - probably in Belgium? by FN?