Neck turning

[WV Sendero]

What tools are needed to get into neck turning? Does anyone have experience with the RW HART neck turning tools from Midway? What tools do you need to decide what neck thickness to turn your cases to? Advice for a rookie would be appreciated.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

WV,

The tools you need to decide what to turn to are pretty simple; a good micrometer (not a caliper), and a knowledge of what your chamber's neck dimension. Make sure you've got at least .001" clearance and take it from there. On the subject of tools, I'd also suggest any of several publications available from Precision Shooting magazine, or one of the specialty books dealing with BenchRest competition, such as the new "The Book of Rifle Accuracy" by Tony Boyer. The Sinclair catalog is yet another good source, as there's some ancillary items you'll need. Expander and turning mandrels (they're different), and several different types of turning tools. There's also kits to power the process using rechargable screwdrivers. Take a look, and that'll probably answer several of your questions, and raise a few more you hadn't even thought of yet.

Hope that helps,

 

[WV Sendero]

WV,

The tools you need to decide what to turn to are pretty simple; a good micrometer (not a caliper), and a knowledge of what your chamber's neck dimension. Make sure you've got at least .001" clearance and take it from there. On the subject of tools, I'd also suggest any of several publications available from Precision Shooting magazine, or one of the specialty books dealing with BenchRest competition, such as the new "The Book of Rifle Accuracy" by Tony Boyer. The Sinclair catalog is yet another good source, as there's some ancillary items you'll need. Expander and turning mandrels (they're different), and several different types of turning tools. There's also kits to power the process using rechargable screwdrivers. Take a look, and that'll probably answer several of your questions, and raise a few more you hadn't even thought of yet.

Hope that helps,

Ok, thanks for the help. I'll find some articles and read up.

 

[Gene]

I would steer away from the Hart neck turner; its graduations are only .001" and you will need .0002". I use K&M exclusively, but the Sinclair is just as good. You will also need a tubing micrometer with graduations of, 0001"; a cordless drill, with appropriate shellholder. Experiment with old cases initially, going about one click at a time. If this is for a factory rifle, necks should be lightly touched, just enough to make them concentric. If a custom tight neck chamber, keep loaded rounds about .002" smaller. By all means, read up on neck turning before you jump in.
Call Sinclair and get their catalog.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Good call on the tubing mic Gene, should'a mentioned that. RCBS and Lyman both offer one for about $59, Mitutoyo will sell you one for about a hundred bucks more.

Before we dive too far into this, I never thought to ask; what are you turning and why? Some tight necked custom guns absolutely need this for safety, virtually all benchresters do it for accuracy (again, custom chambers), and some varminters do it in factroy chambers. In the last case, unless you're dealing with phenomenally crappy brass, it's quite possibly a waste of time. I've even seen some Service Rifle shooters do this, which is a complete, total and absolute waste ot time and effort. So the question is, what are we turning here, and why?

 

[Trickymissfit]

I turn a lot of necks, and use the Sinclair that has the dial indicator added to it. Don't buy it! Get the K&M, and be done with it. There are things I like about the Hart, but also things I don't as others have posted. I don't knowif the K&M is the last word in neck turning tools, but my next one will be a K&M.

I don't like ball mics! I prefer a pin mic as it reads an area verses a small place in the neck I.D. If you can find a micrometer that has interchangeable anvils; that's the best one. (I had one once, and gave it away!) Somebody sells a pin micrometer with what looks like a .218" pin in it, and this is the best out there (think they are about $75). But if you have the one you can swap anvils in you can simply put a gauge pin in it for whatever size best fits your application. I also have a little "L" shaped device I built that uses a micrometer head (Sinclair stole me design about five years later). This better than a pin mic, and just sets on a pad freeing up your hands. I've also built one that uses a dial indicator (sorta like the one from Redding), but the cost of a good jewelled dial indicator is enough to buy three or four micrometers! I did another that used an wand type indicator (or the gear & rack ones), but was a pain to setup. I've seen another one that used a small V black mounted to a steel plate. It used a gauge pin clamped in the V black with a wand type dial indicator making the readings. This is by far the easiest one to use I've seen, and once you get into using gauge pins you'll never look back.
gary

 

[Mikecr]

The Sinclair NT4000 is the last word IMO. Their SYSTEM, is better integrated than any other.
Their digital ball mic is better than ever needed in neck turning.

 

[WV Sendero]

Good call on the tubing mic Gene, should'a mentioned that. RCBS and Lyman both offer one for about $59, Mitutoyo will sell you one for about a hundred bucks more.

Before we dive too far into this, I never thought to ask; what are you turning and why? Some tight necked custom guns absolutely need this for safety, virtually all benchresters do it for accuracy (again, custom chambers), and some varminters do it in factroy chambers. In the last case, unless you're dealing with phenomenally crappy brass, it's quite possibly a waste of time. I've even seen some Service Rifle shooters do this, which is a complete, total and absolute waste ot time and effort. So the question is, what are we turning here, and why?

I'm basically just considering doing it to try to squeeze out a little more accuracy. I never buy crappy brass but I know the expensive stuff still has bad batches. I usually use Lapua and Norma if available, if not I will probably use Nosler. I will be using the rifles for bench shooting (not benchrest competitions), and hunting. Most will be factory rifles, one will soon be a custom (possibly one of the Long range hunting ones from this site). I am not dead set on neck turning, if it really isn't going to help in my situation then I won't do it. So any opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Well, that clears up a few things. For a straight hunting rifle, one that wasn't set up with a tight neck, I'd probably not bother with the turning. If you're using brass that has noticeable dimensional problems in neck wall thickness, it may be of some use to clean it up a bit, but it'd be easier (and better) to use good quality brass to begin with. Another thing to consider with factroy chambers, the more you thin the necks, the more the necks will be worked upon each firing. Expanding to fill the chamber, being sized back down far enough to adequately hold a bullets, etc.. This will lead to reduced brass life, at least to some degree. The tube mic is a useful tool to have on your bench, regardless of whether you're turning or not. It will at the very least allow you to decide whether the brass you're working with even needs such treatment. If you want to give it a try, knock yourself out. At the very least, you'll learn a bit more about handloading, and that's never a bad thing. At best, you might just make questionable brass useable, and even see some accuracy improvement in the process.

 

[WV Sendero]

Well, that clears up a few things. For a straight hunting rifle, one that wasn't set up with a tight neck, I'd probably not bother with the turning. If you're using brass that has noticeable dimensional problems in neck wall thickness, it may be of some use to clean it up a bit, but it'd be easier (and better) to use good quality brass to begin with. Another thing to consider with factroy chambers, the more you thin the necks, the more the necks will be worked upon each firing. Expanding to fill the chamber, being sized back down far enough to adequately hold a bullets, etc.. This will lead to reduced brass life, at least to some degree. The tube mic is a useful tool to have on your bench, regardless of whether you're turning or not. It will at the very least allow you to decide whether the brass you're working with even needs such treatment. If you want to give it a try, knock yourself out. At the very least, you'll learn a bit more about handloading, and that's never a bad thing. At best, you might just make questionable brass useable, and even see some accuracy improvement in the process.

Thanks, for the advice. Based on what you have said I think I'll hold off on the neck turning and try to master a couple other reloading/shooting things I have been working on before I undertake something else that may not even help me in my current situation.

 

[nheninge]

I have factory necks, tight necks and no turn necks. Consistent neck thickness IMO is critical at maintaining good ES and SD. I turn necks on all my rounds to help achieve this. Neck turning does several things beyond just "turning necks". If I turn a piece of brass and it only cleans up one side of the brass, I know that case is not the same thickness from neck to web. Neck turning helps achieve consistent neck tension. Neck turning helps to center the bullet in the chamber (after the fire forming round). Neck turning helps me anneal case necks evenly. Neck turning gives me additional time with each case to inspect it for other irregularities. Neck turning helps me deal with "stacking tolerances", whereby small errors are tolerated throughout the process and the end product is crap. A man that turns necks is IMO likely to pay attention to other details that might make a difference.

However, if you can accurately predict the path of your bullet at variable distances with a cold bore shot, neck turning or not, then not much else matters. Neck turning should NEVER be more important than your ability to read the wind, environment etc. Neck turning will never replace trigger time, so if you decide it is not for you, congratulations, you probably have just graduated! If you are getting good ES and SD...consistently, then maybe you can say it is not necessary for you.

I missed out on a hunt last year because I drove 7 hours only to have my transmission go out. I had the prettiest brass out of anybody on the side of the road though!!! Guess I should have spent less time reloading, and more time working on my truck. Lesson learned.