National Graphics special on wolves played several nights ago

[BigGrizz]

I have no intention of debating an issue with an individual who does not know the definition of 'Theory'.
Suffice it to say that your conjecture should be backed up by fact.
Fact... Since the advent of our species some 77% of the wildlife has dissappeared.
Fact... Ten percent of that has occured since 1980.

Before you begin to grasp at straws..Those figures do not suggest that we are responsible completely for the 77% but they do illustrate a glaring fact that we bear a great deal of responsibility and cannot afford to exterminate species, because in doing so ours is also on the conveyor belt..

I do not indulge in 'peeing' contests.

"Pax hominibus bonae voluntatis, hinc in vitam quid faciemus, in aeternam resonat."
Latin... "Peace to men of good will, for what we do in life echoes through eternity."

Have an Happy New Year...

I didn't provide conjecture- nor theory -to you in response to your fallacious post. What I submitted was cynical philosophy because you DO NOT know anymore than any other person(s) on this planet regarding how this planet's environment should be shaped. Please excuse me for pointing out that the doom of Easter Island cannot be confirmed, though. Heaven forbid somebody point out your conjecture.

I'm curious, that 77% you mention, do you know what fraction of the 95% I mentioned it represents? I'm sure it's infinitesimal.

Also, tell me how I should feel responsible for saving the planet, or a single species when this planet is historically subject to catastrophic disasters of inexperienced magnitude? I suppose we should build big lasers to zap asteroids and special spacecraft to drill into them for explosive deposition and subsequent fractionation. Please forgive me, though, for showing humility in knowing I, nor anyone else has the right answer- that does not mean we cannot find the best answer, however.

And spare us the latin lesson. Save it for Carl Pope and The Sierra Club, Mr. Green Peace. Arrogant, genocidal environmentalists eat that stuff up. They just love feeling more authoritative and distinguished like they actually know more.

(And if you have no intention of debating, then why respond in the first place?)

 

[TG-5150]

You two make lots of sense, be nice to fluffy. It's was his second post.

 

[Rthur]

I have no intention of debating an issue with an individual who does not know the definition of 'Theory'.
Suffice it to say that your conjecture should be backed up by fact.
Fact... Since the advent of our species some 77% of the wildlife has dissappeared.
Fact... Ten percent of that has occured since 1980.

Before you begin to grasp at straws..Those figures do not suggest that we are responsible completely for the 77% but they do illustrate a glaring fact that we bear a great deal of responsibility and cannot afford to exterminate species, because in doing so ours is also on the conveyor belt..

I do not indulge in 'peeing' contests.

"Pax hominibus bonae voluntatis, hinc in vitam quid faciemus, in aeternam resonat."
Latin... "Peace to men of good will, for what we do in life echoes through eternity."

Have an Happy New Year...

You may want to consider what the "hunters" have done in the last 100 years concerning big game species in these United States. Their expenatures dwarf any so called "saviours" of these species.

R

 

[GunHawk]

I do not call this hunting I call it animal control. Come down to Mississippi and look at what the hogs have done.

Hogs are introduced, wolves are native.

 

[GunHawk]

Wolves- and the same for grizzlies -had their place on this continent at one time. Do they now? I think that needs to be the question in relation to what the real goal of reestablishment is, and what is the goal of reestablishment? We replaced the two former apex predators of the region. So do they have a place? Do they have the space?

It's very arrogant of man for us to think we can manage this planet. Regardless of your ideology we are but a blip on the radar. It's estimated 95+% of the species that have ever existed on this planet are gone forever. So how do we know how things should really be, or if we are even doing things correctly? That applies to all modes and mediums of environmental management.

Thank you, sincerely, for posting this.

 

[GunHawk]

That must be one of the most misrepresented and ignorant statements I've ever read on this site.

Indians never took count of how many animals were in an ecosystem, nor how the environment would be affected should an animal go missing. What the Indians did was operate in a sustainable fashion at much lower populations of people and development than there is today.

Stop pretending that tribes of the plains were excellent stewards of the land, and that their societies and practices are analogous to those of today.

To infer that the issue we face today is a consequence or can be related to a particular practice of a race/society of the past is foolish.

Exasperating, but you won't change any minds on this forum.

 

[GunHawk]

What needs to be managed is man's stupidity, especially that of our corrupt politicians. The wolf is not to blame. It is merely trying to survive after having evolved for millions of years.
It is man's dominion and stupidity which has undermined nature's balance, not to mention his greed and lack of knowledge considering many topics such as the wolf and elk. It does not take a great reservior of knowledge to know that the global wolf thanks to us is in great decline and on the run. Thus leading to infestation of runaway species such as the coyote which has become endemic here in the east in the last 30 to 40 years. Never saw one before. I kill dozens of them each year and it does not appear to be making a dint. The eastern red wolf kept them out but man in his wisdom for all practical purposes exterminated that species which once roamed the entire eastern part of the continent. Recently, a small population has been discovered in southern Algonquin Park in Ontario Canada. I am certain the boneheads will be shooting them also.
Where have the bison gone? Where have the grizzlies gone? where have the cougars gone? etc. etc. As I post this our footprint on this planet is putting an end to many species which have evolved and prospered over millenia.
The wolf or any sentient creature has as many rights to the elk as you. If you think otherwise then you are not an educated individual as is the wolf. Wolves are social animals like us. Hence, like us if you kill their pack leaders it generally creates turmoil and death for the entire pack for they lias us pass down their know how to the next generation. Hence without leadership they all perish.

I have no qualm re shooting anything so long as the population in the region is stable. If not I exercise common sense and conservation which as a shooter should be and is my first prerogative, for we are stewards on this planet. It has not been given to us for destruction.

One of your great Americans, a Supreme Court judge and writer once said.
"I see no reason to impute to man a greater significance than to that of a baboon or a grain of sand." (Oliver Wendel Holmes)

Lastly, speaking of a runaway species there are 7.3 billion humans on this planet and even a planet is a finite system. If you know the story of Easter Island then you will appreciate my point..

Cheers....

 

[TG-5150]

Hogs are introduced, wolves are native.

The mustang is an invasive species.....
It kinda showed up with the Spanish pigs.

 

[CoachChris]

The mustang is an invasive species.....
It kinda showed up with the Spanish pigs.

As are we

 

[TG-5150]

I can go for a ten minute drive and usually see them. They are pretty thick in the badlands.
And will flat mess a coyote up. In deer area 125 I have tracked them some, looking for waterholes they might share with deer.
You can hunt Zebra in Africa, too bad we can't do that here.

 

[Doghunter23]

What needs to be managed is man's stupidity, especially that of our corrupt politicians. The wolf is not to blame. It is merely trying to survive after having evolved for millions of years.
It is man's dominion and stupidity which has undermined nature's balance, not to mention his greed and lack of knowledge considering many topics such as the wolf and elk. It does not take a great reservior of knowledge to know that the global wolf thanks to us is in great decline and on the run. Thus leading to infestation of runaway species such as the coyote which has become endemic here in the east in the last 30 to 40 years. Never saw one before. I kill dozens of them each year and it does not appear to be making a dint. The eastern red wolf kept them out but man in his wisdom for all practical purposes exterminated that species which once roamed the entire eastern part of the continent. Recently, a small population has been discovered in southern Algonquin Park in Ontario Canada. I am certain the boneheads will be shooting them also.
Where have the bison gone? Where have the grizzlies gone? where have the cougars gone? etc. etc. As I post this our footprint on this planet is putting an end to many species which have evolved and prospered over millenia.
The wolf or any sentient creature has as many rights to the elk as you. If you think otherwise then you are not an educated individual as is the wolf. Wolves are social animals like us. Hence, like us if you kill their pack leaders it generally creates turmoil and death for the entire pack for they lias us pass down their know how to the next generation. Hence without leadership they all perish.

I have no qualm re shooting anything so long as the population in the region is stable. If not I exercise common sense and conservation which as a shooter should be and is my first prerogative, for we are stewards on this planet. It has not been given to us for destruction.

One of your great Americans, a Supreme Court judge and writer once said.
"I see no reason to impute to man a greater significance than to that of a baboon or a grain of sand." (Oliver Wendel Holmes)

Lastly, speaking of a runaway species there are 7.3 billion humans on this planet and even a planet is a finite system. If you know the story of Easter Island then you will appreciate my point..

Cheers....

How can we screen this site so anti hunter can't post on a hunting site, And that supreme court judge that thinks we're no better than monkeys shouldn't be trusted with and decisions of national interest.

 

[Doghunter23]

Exasperating, but you won't change any minds on this forum.

If the Native American's like me had such a good wolf management plan than why don't we smoke out every den that we find to control wolf population's?

 

[TG-5150]

If each state took control of its own game, it would work out west. Excluding California. But I think east of the Mississippi, it wouldn't be a good move.

How can we screen this site so anti hunter can't post on a hunting site, And that supreme court judge that thinks we're no better than monkeys shouldn't be trusted with and decisions of national interest.

I am on a trapping forum and they screen pretty tough for that, and should.
Personally, I like them showing up every now and then. Adds some spice to the mix.lol.
Not always good for my blood pressure, though.

 

[BigGrizz]

How can we screen this site so anti hunter can't post on a hunting site, And that supreme court judge that thinks we're no better than monkeys shouldn't be trusted with and decisions of national interest.

I don't think he's so much of an anti as he is a romanticizer of a time long past that he never has and never will see.