Muzzleloading rookie / Opinions on first setup

[Deleted member 107796]

Greetings all,
I'm brand new to the front stuffing game, and would like your opinions on what I've decided on so far, with the CO restrictions of no pelletized powder and sabots allowed:

T/C Impact 26" 50cal
245gn Powerbelt Aero Tip bullets
Pyrodex P with a starting load of 80gn
Win Triple 7 primers

First of all, I know the use of Pyrodex P is not orthodox, but I am seeing many that do like its performance in 50cal rifles, thus the need for your input. cheers

 

[KyCarl]

I never could get power belt bullets to shoot worth a darn!
It seemed like the seal was inconsistent speed and accuracy were all over?
I went to a tight sabot with Blackhorn 209 and any 209 shotshell primer I had a sleeve
of open at the time? It shot lots better!

 

[Muddyboots]

CO_Guy: Rifle is well documented to be accurate and have seen them shoot extremely well. The standard Winchester 209 is a bit hotter and is nice to have for BP sub powders since they are harder to ignite than regular BP. I will try to find a read I saw on ML labeled 209 primers where they are not readily recommended for harder to ignite powders due to less fire from them even though they are so called made for ML. If you are hunting for elk, I would suggest a tougher bullet than the PB and heavier load than you are suggesting. Even for deer size game that is going to be a load on the light side. I've shot the Hornady Great Plains bullet for long time in my TC Hawkens .54 and it shot extremely well even at 100 yards. Heck we were breaking birds at 200 with it. Good load data comes with the bullet as well. The real problem you will experience with Pyrodex P is be aware of the sulfur ring that will build up fast near breech. Patch with TC No.11 and dry patch to keep this area whistle clean to get consistent bullet seat on powder. I agree on not ever getting the PB's to shoot consistently accurate due to plastic seal issues. I tried them once in comparison the Hornady GP conical and it wasn't even close on accuracy and consistent velocity thru my chronograph. I know the GP bullet looks old fashion but guess what...so is the rifle and they flat out shoot most conical bullets out there. I haven't tried the new Federal "conical" style bullet and not sure if CO has allowed them or not. I switched to Blackhorn 209 few years back and no sulfur ring, consistent accuracy and velocity. BH209 prefers you weigh their product which translates to consistency that is hard to duplicate with volumetric measures.

I was using FFF 777 before BH209 and with smaller granules you have to be aware of volume charge change due to more powder per throw but my Hawkens shot really well with it.

Whatever you end up with on primers, be aware you HAVE to clean your breech plug fire hole frequently to remove the build up from 209 primers. I found that a hex head 1/8" drill bit hand twirled fit my Encore breech plug perfectly and kept it nice and clean to allow maximum fire through to ignite the powder. This is a really big deal to maintain well for perfect ignition time and time again. I am not certain if the 1/8" will fit the Impact breech but just a suggestion to consider. Also good "pick" to clean the actual flash hole in the breech plug just as frequent as cleaning the breech plug. I have tried the pipe bristle pipe cleaners trick but not as efficient as the finger twirled drill bit.

Oh yeah, if wind is in your face don't breathe after shot!

 

[ENCORE]

Your rifle will shoot BH209 perfectly, but at minimum use a regular shotgun primer such as the WIN209. Preferably a magnum primer, such as a CCI209M or Federal 209A. As mentioned above, you'll

As far as a bullet, if a full 50cal projectile is required, I highly recommend the Fury bullets. They just flat out work and many shooting SML's are hunting with that bullet.

As already mentioned, you'll need to keep the flash channel clear of carbon. A 1/8" drill bit TURNED BY HAND will chip out the carbon.
As for the BH, there is no crud rings that form and most rifles generally shoot to the same POA without swabbing between rounds. Yeah, its that good.

 

[Elkeater]

I'm in CO as well. I use 245gr aerotip powerbelts with 110gr triple 7 powder and triple 7 primers. I kill deer with mine. Never shot an elk with it but with the open sights required (I put target style globe and peep sights on mine) I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk out to my 150 yard max. It hits deer hard and generally leaves a big hole going out. I killed an antelope with mine too and it was wrecked.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Thanks for all the excellent feedback so far. Especially the wind direction thing.

So a lighter 245gn bullet will not make up its kinetic energy with good velocity vs, say a 350gn?
In any case, I'm going to also try some 350gn T/C Maxi Hunters and Pyrodex Select or Triple 7, maybe in ffg if the Pyrodex P does not perform.

 

[Buttermilk]

BH209 powder has outperformed any of the other BP substitues for me in my guns.

Use either a F209A primer or a CCI209M primer, as suggested by the Black Horn 209 website for consistent ignition.

No swabbing between shots using BH209 with no crud ring (ie T7), and cleaner burning than Pyrodex or T7.

 

[KyCarl]

I used Fiocchi 616 primers in my shotgun shells and they work fine in my TC Pro Hunter.
You can't tell them from Federal 209A and Winchester 209's! The OD is a bit bigger but no big deal. Never had one not work and I've shot 1000's of them!
They interchange on the reloading charts...
I have a Trijicon scope on mine.I had to take the iron sights off so it would clear
But it shoots great and I'm glad I did it!

 

[IdahoCTD]

The lighter Powerbelts can have poor penetration on elk. I started with the light ones and then switched to the 348's in my .50. The heavier bullets kill elk a lot better. I've shot about 15 cows with mostly Powerbelts and a few saboted 250 and 300 Hornady SST's. The furthest were 184 and 208yds. 2 of my 3 700ML's love 100grs by volume or 85grs by weight of triple 7 and a 348 Powerbelt. I use the Lyman globe sight with inserts on the front and the factory rear sight. The Lyman sight is way better if your going to shoot past your sight in distance so you don't have to cover what your shooting at. The only better way would be to use a rear peep with a dial adjustment like a scope on the rear. They are just harder to use in low light conditions.

 

[BountyHunter]

Go with BH 209 powder 90-110 grains. Regular 209 primer. The muzzleloading primers are for people using 777 and they are 1/4 power to try and help minimize the terrible 777 crud ring. Stay away from 777 and muzzleloading primers. Now some TCs have tight bores and hard to load. Try the Barnes TM-EZ spitfire bullets. Their sabot is just a hair smaller. That barnes bullet opens just like the pics so use it or the regual TM-MZ spitfires. Powerbelts are easy to load, often accurate but notorius poor at opening. I have trailed a lot of wounded deer that they "penciled" thru and never opened and my buddy still loves them though. He has lost some nice deer to PB bullets though. SSTs are anothe good bullet.

 

[Deleted member 56284]

I second Black Horn 209, it is the only way to go. I have used the Hornady SST with good success but prefer any of the offerings from Barnes. My favorite in my smokeless is the Barnes original 300 gr. 45-70 bullet. In my more traditional guns that I run Black Horn in I like the Barnes 250gr. TEZ. All things being equal on the accuracy & loading side of things the Barnes preforms better on the other end, at least for me. IMO power belts are absolute junk. If you can't run sabot in your state there are other options that are far better than power belts.

 

[Vortex!]

I would definitely shy away from the powerbelts.

 

[th82457]

If you want to dial in your gun & meet all Colorado regulations I suggest the following. Use BH 209 powder with full power 209 primers as suggested above. Then do a search & contact the Thor bullet supplier. They have basically Barnes solid copper H.P. bullets that can be bought in H.P. or plastic tip that are modified with a hollow base and sized to match your bore. You can order a sample of (4) bullets that have .500", .501", .502" &.503" skirted base. These come with instructions on how to use them to determine which bullet diameter will shoot best in your rifle. Once best fit is determined, then you can order the correct size bullets for your rifle. These work fantastic for accuracy & on elk. No worries on penetration or accuracy. They are not cheap - but worth every penny. I tried them out at first with a scope on my muzzleloader & after zeroing I shot a 3 shot group at 100 meters that had all three rounds touching. Then I removed the scope, put on a good peep sight and practiced out to 150 meters with peep sight. Both my hunting partner & myself have killed elk with this combination with no issues. The BH 209 with these bullets is a no-brainer.

 

[th82457]

To clarify the reasoning on the Thor bullet sizing - Our group of four hunters have three different brands of muzzleloaders and all three have different bore size - so we each use a specific diameter that suits our gun best.