muzzle loading for Antelope

[25WSM]

I live in PA and our muzzleloader season restricts us to flintlocks. We used to have to use round balls too. And open sights mean just that. No peep sights allowed. I would rather use my bow. We do have an early season and you can use modern in lines. It's during archery season and your only allowed to shoot does. Once again I'd rather use my bow. The day I have a muzzleloader is when the monster buck walks 10 yds from your tree. I do build smokeless guns for the Ohio guys. 300 gn bullets at 2850 to 2900 does a nice job on anything that walks.
Shep

 

[RAGGED EDGE]

www.namlhunt.com

 

[DRock]

Can you use a scope on the muzzleloader? I live in NM and have been in the long range muzzleloader game for the last 6 or 7 years. I started with the Ultimate Muzzleloader that Remington bought the patent to and it was awesome but big and heavy and limited to ~400 yards due to lower bc bullets. I just purchased the new CVA Paramount rifle in .45 caliber and shoot the new powerbelt 280 powerbelt ELR bullet with a .450bc!! I am getting 2500fps with blackhorn 209 powder and can ring the gong at 500yards all day long. Energy to kill elk at 600+yards. My buddy has a muzzleloader antelope hunt next week in New Mexico and he is borrowing it for the hunt. This rifle is a game changer and I would HIGHLY recommend for antelope hunting if you can use a scope.

 

[dave300]

Can you use a scope on the muzzleloader? I live in NM and have been in the long range muzzleloader game for the last 6 or 7 years. I started with the Ultimate Muzzleloader that Remington bought the patent to and it was awesome but big and heavy and limited to ~400 yards due to lower bc bullets. I just purchased the new CVA Paramount rifle in .45 caliber and shoot the new powerbelt 280 powerbelt ELR bullet with a .450bc!! I am getting 2500fps with blackhorn 209 powder and can ring the gong at 500yards all day long. Energy to kill elk at 600+yards. My buddy has a muzzleloader antelope hunt next week in New Mexico and he is borrowing it for the hunt. This rifle is a game changer and I would HIGHLY recommend for antelope hunting if you can use a scope.

Impressive, nice job.
Hope I can fire off some questions?
Realizing a load has to be worked up to for safety reasons, but care to share your load?
Did you have any work done to the weapon such as bedding, pillars, muzzle brake, etc?
Any breech plug upgrade?
Any pictures of the weapon?
Any trigger work, or after market triggers available?
2500 fps is moving along, are comfortable with your chronograph, I asks as I only have experience with .50 and the velocity as expected is substantially slower.
Thanks for your post it is quit intriguing!

 

[ENCORE]

Can you use a scope on the muzzleloader? I live in NM and have been in the long range muzzleloader game for the last 6 or 7 years. I started with the Ultimate Muzzleloader that Remington bought the patent to and it was awesome but big and heavy and limited to ~400 yards due to lower bc bullets. I just purchased the new CVA Paramount rifle in .45 caliber and shoot the new powerbelt 280 powerbelt ELR bullet with a .450bc!! I am getting 2500fps with blackhorn 209 powder and can ring the gong at 500yards all day long. Energy to kill elk at 600+yards. My buddy has a muzzleloader antelope hunt next week in New Mexico and he is borrowing it for the hunt. This rifle is a game changer and I would HIGHLY recommend for antelope hunting if you can use a scope.

Nice to hear from a Paramount owner, a good report at long range.

I wish CVA would have listened to the more seasoned shooters and not used the ignition system they went with. There WAY BETTER ignition systems that would have been a better choice. I do know Luke is perfecting a new breech plug system and bolt head. IIRC the breech plug is done and the bolt face is a couple weeks out. That's a modification coming I'd make immediately.
CVA needs to get that rifle either to next months NMLRA championship shoot, or at least to next May's inline hunter match. They will need their TOP shooters, but if they shoot well, it would be some of the best FREE advertising they could ask for.

 

[25WSM]

I use Luke's plugs and have had zero leakage. Shooting 300 grain bullets 2900fps. I also use his special contour brux barrels. Every one I've built shoot 1.5 inch and under at 300 yards. Shep

 

[ENCORE]

I use Luke's plugs and have had zero leakage. Shooting 300 grain bullets 2900fps. I also use his special contour brux barrels. Every one I've built shoot 1.5 inch and under at 300 yards. Shep

Can't beat Luke's breech plug system. My BP Xpress was actually the first Ultimate that Luke modified.
My custom also has Luke's complete ignition system, along with the LR Customs T-Rex CSTM brake on a Rock Creek 1:19 twist barrel.
It just amazes me how far muzzleloaders have came and for a LONG RANGE web page, if a guy wants to extend his range, its a great place to learn about the customs.

 

[wv270wsm]

Not trying to hijack but a different question that would pertain to this . I read somewhere once upon a few years ago that someone was making sabots that you could shoot 338 projectile for a 50 cal inline. Anyone else ever see such a thing?

 

[Rumup]

Not trying to hijack but a different question that would pertain to this . I read somewhere once upon a few years ago that someone was making sabots that you could shoot 338 projectile for a 50 cal inline. Anyone else ever see such a thing?

I've never seen such a thing not that someone didn't try it. But good luck finding a 10 twist 50cal barrel.

 

[owlman]

My son and I each bought a Paramount and had two of the first production guns out. We had a problem right off the bat the with the guns but Camaran, the customer service rep at BPI Outdoors, was great in dealing with us. The issue we ran into was the primer would fail to fire on the first pull of the trigger. If you cycled the bolt and tried again it would fire that time. We sent pictures and then they asked if we could ship one of the guns back for them to inspect. They found out the priming guide they sent with the first guns was off a few thousands of an inch so the primer wasn't getting fully seated in the Variflame adapter. The first strike of the firing pin seated the primer and the second strike would ignite it. The turn around was extremely fast on them inspecting the gun and returning it with a new priming guide for both of us. They then sent out the guide to anyone who had purchased a gun with the wrong guide as I received another one not long after that. We also received a new bolt nose spring that was heavier and helped seal the Variflame adapter better in the breech plug. I have included a picture of one of the adapters after having used it a few times and you can see that there is no fouling from blowback on it at all.

The load we are using is as follows:

Powerbelt 280 grain ELR
105 grains by weight of Blackhorn 209
CCI No. 200 Large rifle primers (Which CVA recommends)

This gave an average muzzle velocity of 2313 fps with an ES of 10 fps. Tried CCI No.
250 Magnum large rifle primers and muzzle velocity averaged 2425 fps but ES went
up to 50 fps so will be sticking with the Large rifle primers for now.

After several shooting sessions we started to question the BC of the Powerbelt 280 grain ELR which is listed at .452 in the brochure included with the bullets. We emailed our findings to BPI and they said that indeed was a mistake on their part and the correct BC should be .366. We found that .333 was probably closer to what we were seeing but that's probably nit picking. Accuracy has been impressive so far with a few 2'' groups at 400 yards in perfect shooting conditions and 3'' groups in average conditions. The trigger on both of our guns is excellent so I haven't considered changing it. The recoil of the gun is quite manageable due to its weight so I don't foresee adding a brake. I would be open to a breech plug upgrade if and when Luke comes out with something. Until then I'm happy with the system it has and will be taking the gun to Utah to hunt elk in a few weeks.

 

[dave300]

@owlman
Thx for the write up! I'm on the verge of a purchase and your post makes me wonder if there are other paramounts out there with the same problem that have not been addressed, such as in the case of standing inventory?

The accuracy of these is being favorably/consistently reported but I still can't help it wonder if full bore bullets would make a big difference?
Maybe @ENCORE could give his thoughts?

 

[ENCORE]

@owlman
Thx for the write up! I'm on the verge of a purchase and your post makes me wonder if there are other paramounts out there with the same problem that have not been addressed, such as in the case of standing inventory?

The accuracy of these is being favorably/consistently reported but I still can't help it wonder if full bore bullets would make a big difference?
Maybe @ENCORE could give his thoughts?

From the different posts around that I've followed, the only issues being reported are all related to the variflame ignition system. I can not, in my wildest dreams, believe CVA doesn't have some of "their" people following the many muzzleloader forums, and why they went with the variflame ignition is beyond me.
I just don't think that the manufacturers realize that the #1 complaint from owners is the leaking breech plug issues, or gas cutting for that matter. Remington is another manufacturer that absolutely knows there's a fix for the RUM, yet refuses to correct the issue. Now maybe it still may be a contract issue, but when any contract runs out with UF, they would be very wise to use the Gen2 system, which by the way, Remington is very aware of.

I have not seen a post from a Paramount owner that didn't show the rifle to be accurate. I did see one person who was consistently maintaining MOA at 300yds, and that is great shooting for a "new to the market" muzzleloader.

I know Luke is working on a permeant fix and last I heard it was a couple weeks out, barring any major issues. I have 100% confidence that when Luke finishes his system, it'll be a MAJOR improvement for the Paramount. Once that fix is made, I would really like to see one of the Paramount rifles shooting at Friendship and challenging Knight. We need the competition with production rifles.

IMO...…… a different full bore bullet will end up being the choice for "accuracy serious" shooters down the road. There's just so many .45cal bullets that are extremely accurate from 45cal rifles. ASG, Fury, Pittman, Parker etc.

I've never been a CVA fan, just never cared for the rifles. However...… I'm hoping CVA gets the Paramount issues corrected (or someone does), and the rifle starts setting the standard for other production manufacturers.
Once some of the states that require a .50cal rifle for certain game species realizes the potential of the .45cal rifles, some laws might get changed.

 

[Nomosendero]

Sounds like once Luke gets his system perfected he should go to CVA and sell his product. Of course it's a matter of knowing the right folks, relationships, egos, good cost for CVA with a good profit for Luke and many other things.
Bottom line though, CVA should have an interest in making the rifle the best it could be
as long as the additional price is not too much.