Two things, sloppy hunters can wound game with a bow, round ball iron sights ML or a CF magnum. It's not the weapon but the shooter's fault for a poor shot/shot choice. Also maybe ML hunt was originally instituted as a "PRIMITIVE" hunt not a hunt with a modern smokeless powder, jacketed bullet scoped, single shot that is essentially a CF rifle.
Motivation for ML hunting restrictions
- Thread starter Sam Aspacher
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It wouldn't be hard for a state to figure out the percentage of hunters who want to hunt with primitive weapons vs those who prefer more modern ones. Make tags weapon specific(ie, traditional bows vs compounds vs crossbows. and add/move seasons around a little to accommodate everyone. There's enough animals, time and space.
340Wby-4-everything
Well-Known Member
Yep and the amount of time that bullet is in the air, down range energy, etc. brings up the question of ethics and what is hunting? Both are to each their own and not allowed to be debated here. Most agree with the exception of war/terrorists and the like, our quarry deserves our respect and the quickest, cleanest kill possible and even if you don't, please don't share that opinion with the anti-hunters/anti-gunners as that causes us All problems. All jomo- just one man's opinion and the libtards haven't taken that away yet. I drew a moose tag in CO this yr and plan to hunt with ML (open sights only, no pelletized powder, 50 cal and up, no breech loaders (that ain't a muzzleloader by definition), no sabots, no smokeless powder and nothing electric attached. And there are more regulations and I am frankly surprised they allow fibre optic iron sights and the use of shotgun primers. So 150yds max (200 if you have a good gun and eyes to go with it) seems about right. I completely agree with Chavo_12, if you want to hunt at longer ranges, get a rifle and apply for that tag. The disadvantage, you can't shoot 4-500yds or the much longer stuff I see here and there frequently with a ML, the advantage, you get to hunt them right in the heart of the rut with something that reaches far longer than stick and string. Sadly I am old enough to remember when 250-300 yds hunting was considered a very long shot.
That would be pretty different than what we have here in Montana. We have 6 weeks of archery to start off, a week break then 6 more weeks of general rifle, break for a couple of more weeks and the newly instituted traditional muzzleloader goes for another week. That's September to the middle of December. They'd have to be breaking stuff apart and I don't see anyone around here wanting to do that. We're lucky they even added the new muzzleloader season. Before the only muzzleloader stuff we had was weapons restriction areas and those were/are no in-lines, no scopes, no sabots.
I don't think I'd be too upset if they did something though. First 2 weeks of archery all trad, first 2 weeks of rifle any muzzleloader goes. I'd be fine with that, my wife might not like that I have new bows and muzzleloaders showing up though. I still need to get a traditional one, in case I still ever have a tag.
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In Alaska you can't hunt with scopes during special ML season. My max effective range on a moose is 80 yards. Shooting a 350 grain Barnes with 80 gr black powder. Knowing I have to get close changes my hunting style, longest shot on moose with ML 30 yards/ shortest 6 yards. Alaska does allow scopes during general season, but not restricted weapon hunts. My Longest shot with 308 norma mag, rifle on animal 800+. Your weapon will choose your hunting style. If I take the 408 cheytac up on Mt side, I can hit at 1500. If I take my bow 45 yards. If you don't know your max range with a weapon figure it out, you owe it to the animal to be 100% sure. Yes there are **** hunters out there that wound animals, mainly from lack of knowledge and skill. I personally think if they allow scopes on ML it should be true black powder not alternative. Just my 2 cents
RAGGED EDGE
Well-Known Member
You can also shoot 800-1000yards with a .22 LR, with about the same amount of potential for hitting something. It seems to me the anti-hunters have infiltrated the New Mexico game commission.
6.5x300 WBY
Well-Known Member
Still archery with everything and every advantage it has over real archery long bows or recurve. Not really. Is it closer than say a crossbow yes but don't kid yourself its as far away from real archery without being a crossbow as you can get.
Primitive season like you state would not include in line mls. I agree. But my state classifies it as muzzleloader season. I have no problem with whatever they want to do but those limitations will cause more wounded animals then allowing superior systems or optics to help a person aim better to make a clean kill.
M1A1ABRAMS
Well-Known Member
I don't know about that. Do you think the old timers would not have used the advances if they had them ? They went from a smooth bore to rifled. And then as far as crossbows they have existed for hundreds of years. This is truly a subject that I can see both sides of. I see the positives & negatives to both sides. I do like the old ways of hunting. But I do not want to tell someone else they can not use a better tool suited for the job.
In all honesty, my experience with all the "muzzle loaders" is limited. Not up to all the combinations and offerings these days. Just the old style traditional with the adition of the cap instead of a pan.
Some states say "primitive", some say "muzzle loaders" and define those. My opinion is, if you want special privileges such as special hunting season, need to be "primitive". JMHO. In any case, only residents of a particular state can complaint about that state's regulations. Again, JMHO.
6.5x300 WBY
Well-Known Member
My muzzleloader is a rifle and I would much rather hunt and use my smokless muzzleloader over a center fire rifle anyways. 800 yards is plenty far enough for me to go long with my Smokless muzzleloader so I would be perfectly happy if allowed to do just that.
I don't think the topic most are discussing here is just about killing a bull during rut and I think most here would agree with you. I think it's all the other hunts they're really getting after. Antelope, mule deer, Coues whitetail, etc….
M1A1ABRAMS
Well-Known Member
I wonder how some people will feel when they make using LR rifles illegal for any type of hunting ? Or put caliber restrictions in place. Or you can only use straight wall cartridges. Or possibly you can only hunt with shotguns as a few States have been doing. Or no lead. I hate to limit someones ability to do something as long as their actions are not hurting anyone else. I would like to see the number of animals taken in ML season with these long range ML to see if the actions imposed are even justifiable. Or is this a just in case scenario with ML ?
6.5x300 WBY
Well-Known Member
My muzzleloader is a rifle and I would much rather hunt and use my smokless muzzleloader over a center fire rifle anyways. 800 yards is plenty far enough for me to go long with my Smokless muzzleloader so I would be perfectly happy if allowed to do just that
Completely agree
