Moose Hunt

If there is a bad shot, is that on the guide or the shooter? Clearly the onus should be on the shooter and if it is, then it should be on the shooter to determine if they think they can make the shot. Absolutely agree not everyone has sound judgement however, that's not for the guide (or anyone else) to decide for that individual. I know the guides have all these horror stories but again, that's not on them. Get the shooter in the best possible position and let them make the call. Only exception I can see to this is if a guide has range time with a shooter and knows they can't hit the broad side of a barn.
 
NorsemanAlaska said:
Yes, I read this: "At first light I spotted a 65"+ moose about a mile away. At last light he fed out into a meadow and was 464 yards away."
Being that it's September, and there's about 14 hours of daylight, and you could stalk a mile in a couple hours, my assumption is that they sat there and watched the moose all day. Thanks.
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Not calling the OP out at all but it seems like a lot of info is missing. That is why I have stuck to my guns about the process. Guiding and outfitting is not an easy task and there is always 2 sides to the story. I have clients bash us through their broker because they didn't get an animal. They didn't tell the broker we put them on animals multiple times and they had shot opportunities or missed. It is amazing how my clients play games after the fact to try and get their money back. It always boils down to expectations and communication. At the end of hunt is NOT the time to have the discussion.
 
CVCOBRA1 said:
If the would be client doesn't have the knowledge to bring up any questions on range limitations when booking a hunt, the outfitter should. Why keep anything like that a secrete from the man who is paying the bill. If the range can not be negotiated then the would be client can simply say no thanks and move on.
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BrentM said:
Not calling the OP out at all but it seems like a lot of info is missing. That is why I have stuck to my guns about the process. Guiding and outfitting is not an easy task and there is always 2 sides to the story. I have clients bash us through their broker because they didn't get an animal. They didn't tell the broker we put them on animals multiple times and they had shot opportunities or missed. It is amazing how my clients play games after the fact to try and get their money back. It always boils down to expectations and communication. At the end of hunt is NOT the time to have the discussion.
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Great listening to all the sides,,,FOR SURE ( IF I was A GUIDE and that kind of money was on the table,ARRIVE ahead of time PROVE YOUR ABLE TO SHOOT or LOSE SOME HUNTING TIME ,PROVING YOU ABLE TO SHOOT AND RIFLE IS ZERO'd IN ORRRRrrrrrr 300YARDS WILL BE your LIMIT....PERIOD.......sign and date ....here..NOW WE CAN HUNT:):):):):):):):):) ALOT les gray area...
 
Pacecount said:
Gents,

I had a guided Moose hunt this year in Alaska which was unsuccessful... it happens. I felt the outfitter was solid but I had an incident with a guide and I would like a second opinion.

At first light I spotted a 65"+ moose about a mile away. At last light he fed out into a meadow and was 464 yards away. In short, the guide denied me on a clear shot. I spoke with the guide afterward and he said I did not understand how much respect he had for those animals and he did not want to see me wound it.

Yes, I kept my composure and this was my only opportunity at a moose during the trip. I had a 7mm rem mag with VLD 180s at 2910 FPS and carry 2000 ft pounds of energy at 500 yards.

I wish this opportunity had never presented itself as it tainted my experience. I did speak with the outfitter and he stands behind his guide and is not willing to work something out that would be a win win.

Adding; I practice out to 1000 yards and have taken several animals cross canyon. Prior to the hunt I established 500 yards as a max shooting range as I wanted plenty of energy to take the animal.

Thoughts?
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I would be very upset if I felt I could make the shot I think it should be up to me whether the animal is wounded which is terrible or dead on the ground that's one less moose in the area and either I go home with a moose or not it should be my choice and not up to him to second-guess my abilities
 
Clem Bronkoski said:
Were these experienced long range shooters? Seems awfully odd if they were.
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If it was a target like this, may very well have happened. 6 bullet splashes on both sides of the cutout and now you better spot your miss or your 2nd shot is a guess. Plus most likely 6mm's were caliber of choice.
deer.jpg



To the op, you handled it better than I may have, the disappointment combined with the monetary aspect, plus practice and travel time .
 
milo-2 said:
If it was a target like this, may very well have happened. 6 bullet splashes on both sides of the cutout and now you better spot your miss or your 2nd shot is a guess. Plus most likely 6mm's were caliber of choice.View attachment 153729


To the op, you handled it better than I may have, the disappointment combined with the monetary aspect, plus practice and travel time .
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Not sure what a 6mm has to do with it. It's steel,
milo-2 said:
If it was a target like this, may very well have happened. 6 bullet splashes on both sides of the cutout and now you better spot your miss or your 2nd shot is a guess. Plus most likely 6mm's were caliber of choice.View attachment 153729


To the op, you handled it better than I may have, the disappointment combined with the monetary aspect, plus practice and travel time .
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Instead of going off memory I looked up the post, should have do so in the first place. I wasn't there so it didn't hold as much value to me to retain. However, after competing for several years and seeing first hand the results of matches, this is not uncommon. Matches don't always equate to field shooting as we tend to just shoot steel instead of kill zones as a hit is a hit. Things like the vortex challenge hold a little more value as you have fewer shots and #1 is the most valued. I have shot many of those practical matches with positional shooting and the results are about the same. Very few first round impacts and overall hit percentage is low. I have been in the top of those matches several times and the misses bug the hell out of me. As result when I teach long range hunting courses I am drilling home the importance of field shooting and not just banging steel of a bench. Most of the students do well prone but once that stability is gone, accuracy is gone.


Here is the life size deer target that I placed at 730 yards. 28 of the shooters found this target and engaged it with 2 rounds. Keep in mind, these shooters practice between matches, have rifles that shoot .5 moa or better, and are hunters themselves. Also it was nearly calm winds all match.

Of the 56 rounds, 9 were clean kills, 8 were "lucky" spine or neck kills, 14 were slow deaths where the hunter would have to track blood trails with varying success, and the rest were misses.

If these shots were at 56 animals would that be acceptable?

If you can get closer, get closer. If you want to brag about how far you can shoot, do it with a target not an animal.
 
If the OPs story is truthful and as clear cut as he presents it then the guide screwed up. His job is to get you to the animal. If you miss, that sucks, if you wound it, then the guide can yell at you. It's not his job to "what if" you.

It's your money, your time, your equipment. He did his job and then he didn't afford you the opportunity to do yours. He messed up.
 
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It is your money, your time and your equipment but it's in the guide's territory. My question is, if you wing it and it takes off will you cancel your tag and call it a successful hunt because you got a shot at a trophy animal - or will you want to keep hunting?
 
ofbandg said:
It is your money, your time and your equipment but it's in the guide's territory. My question is, if you wing it and it takes off will you cancel your tag and call it a successful hunt because you got a shot at a trophy animal - or will you want to keep hunting?
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If by wing you mean wound and got away, then no, I personally would not want to keep hunting. If there's a chance I could keep hunting the animal I wounded then yes, I would do it to put it out of its misery. Plus I know certain states have laws if you wound an animal you give up your tag. So the sour taste of wounding an animal and the laws would stop my hunt.

If it's a clean miss, then I would keep hunting. The guide can call me an idiot, or whatever, don't care. But we can figure out what went wrong, fix it, and go after another one.

It might be the guides territory, but it's my money. If he doesn't want hunters taking shots at animals then he doesn't need to take their money. His service is getting customers to the animal. Not providing shooting lessons on go / no go hunting scenarios.
 
ofbandg said:
It is your money, your time and your equipment but it's in the guide's territory. My question is, if you wing it and it takes off will you cancel your tag and call it a successful hunt because you got a shot at a trophy animal - or will you want to keep hunting?
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I am under the understanding once you drew blood you were done
 
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