Model 70 safety problem

[shortgrass]

In the OP's case, the safety cannot be engaged because the cocking piece is not held far enough to the rear, by the sear, right?

(Reread your post) OK, yea, my words were jumbled in my first post, thanks for the correction. Over fitting causes the firing pin stroke to shorten, right? Do you run out of firing cocking distance or cause a different timing issue first?

The cocking piece is not held far enough to the rear, by the sear. The safety is hitting the round part of the cocking piece and not engaging the cam on the cocking piece. You'd have to over cut a bunch to hurt firing pin distance. You'd have to over cut a bunch on the sear (or the cocking piece where it engages the sear) to cause 'timing' issues. It's slow work fitting a safety on a Win 70, or any 2 or 3 position firing pin safety on any make or model.

 

[B-LOT Banga]

There would be no use in "taking measurements, before and after", each is a hand fit situation.

Maybe it's just me but I like to take before and after measurements. I know each gun is unique but I like to give an answer of I took off ".020" to make it work instead of 200 strokes with a file. Maybe after doing a several I would understand where the range is in between so I can take majority off and then start the process of hand fitting it because it takes so much time to file it down, assemble and disassemble. I guess it's a habit I have from working in a machine shop and building race engines. It dawned on me I didn't take the before reading until I was stroking away. But the pin was sticking out 3/16 when cocked which won't change, I just don't know how much material I took off.

 

[shortgrass]

I don't need to know how much I took off, it either works or it doesn't. I started machining in 1974........ I don't gunsmith full time., I still work in a job shop.

 

[Stiltsville]

With a set of number drill and a selection of pins anyone could fix this.

 

[1 Trapper]

I would replace the firing pin spring. The Model 70 trigger is probably the best trigger to come out of a factory-but, I have found if you are getting inconsistent trigger pulls or firing upon closing the bolt hard, put a new spring in. Also helps groups.

 

[Backcountry sports]

You're being punished for replacing the best single stage trigger ever made with something that will pack up if you don't keep surgically clean.

I just used @mcarbo spring it was perfect at 2lbs

 

[Toolhand]

I am not a gunsmith either but if I'm not mistaken the model 70 has a safety cam with a half moon taken out of one side that allows the trigger to fire. If the safety isn't working then some material needs to be removed to allow the cam to properly rotate. Make sure the bolt is cocked or u will remove to much material.... ask me how I know. The process isn't terribly hard

 

[Vaughng]

The relationship between the trigger sear and the cocking piece sear has to be such that with the safety on you can pull the trigger and release it. the trigger returns to its position without interference from the cocking piece sear it does not fire when you let the safety off.
What this translates to is that there has to be a bit more clearance between the cocking piece sear and the trigger sear.
In this condition the trigger is free to move and return to its correct position multiple times without any interference, as the safety is holding the cocking piece rearward towards your eye. If you let the safety off it moves forward ever so slightly until it contacts the trigger sear it is now ready to fire.
With the safety on , The trigger sear is in effect in its own space as that the safety holds the cocking piece sear back and the trigger sear is free to move and when released it will return to its position without contacting the cocking piece sear and when you let the safety off the cocking piece goes forward and contacts the trigger sear. It will now fire
This is a very delicate measurement as a few thousandths of an inch(.005 inch) will either work or make the rifle unsafe.
If this relationship is not correct (in this condition) then it may fire when you let the safety off. The safety has to cam the cocking piece rearward when you activate it you should be able to feel this resistance
I use a diamond wheel and hold the sear in the tool post of my lathe, this operation is critical and should not be attempted by hand . If you are not 100 percent confident take it to a gunsmith , Your original trigger may be able to be sorted the edge of the sear may be rounded giving alternating release pressures or may just need a bloody good clean.
Vaughn Gunthorpe
Plainland Australia

 

[DSheetz]

Toolhand has a good handle on the triggers . If you look at rifle basic's web page on their triggers they tell you how to do the right amount of material removal from the safety cam .If too much is removed then the safety will not engage . The pins will wear most times and can be replaced with out having to re-drill the holes as they are the softest part for that reason on the older model 70 triggers . I'm not a gun smith either but like Shortgrass I started working as a millwright in the late 60's . To properly diagnose I feel that I would need to look at the trigger assembly in place on the action

 

[jdyoung]

The working pieces of the M70 firing mechanism, (trigger, cocking piece, firing pin, safety), are Matched. Change one thing and you are lucky if you don't have to change another or all. Many Mauser types are that way. And after altering, the surfaces may...may have to be rehardened as they might have been made from steel that is surface hardened. I would take it to an experienced smith and see if you can have the Timney installed using a new cocking piece, firing pin ( just in case the firing pin protrusion is off after the trigger , cocking piece change), or if the stock M70 trigger can be simply repaired, ( a new spring maybe). That gives you the choice of using whichever trigger suits you.

 

[grry10]

I had Timney install their trigger in my Post 64 model 70 (push feed). After receiving my rifle back, I tested the safety and it seemed to work ok. I took my rifle to the range, shot less than 20 rounds, brought it home, cleaned it and put it in the rack. That was two years ago. This spring I was going to take it to the range, but found that if I squeeze the trigger while the safety ON the hammer is released and strikes the firing pin. The rifle then de-cocks when the safety is moved to OFF! If I had a round in the chamber it may discharge!

I contacted Timney and they asked for pictures of the trigger installation, which I sent. They have never responded to that or my follow-up emails!

I believe the problem is that they took too much metal off the cocking piece or changed the angle. I tested this by putting the bolt from my 670 in my model 70, safety and trigger work as they should. Put the 70 bolt in my model 670 and the problem transferred to my 670. So that tells me it is a waste of time to remove the Timney and install the original trigger.

Since the push feed cocking piece is manufacture discontinued and I'm unable to locate a new or used one, I will be taking it to Ahlman's in Minnesota. They will build up the safety notch and recut it. Lesson learned the hard way.

 

[Highdesertmike]

I didn't read through the entire post, so forgive me if this has already been stated. I have installed 6 Timmney Triggers on Mod700 Remingtons. The Trigger guard housing needs to be milled out slightly to allow for clearance. The safety binds if this is not done. Don't know if this is also an issue with Mod70's, but thought I would throw it out.

 

[Shortmagman]

I own 6 Model 70 Winchesters, because I love them. Three of them have Timney Triggers and three have the MOA triggers. The older Models had the old Winchesters triggers and I never could get a consistent trigger pull so I replaced them with Timney. These triggers have worked very well. I even replaced the trigger on my only pre64 with a Timney and it works great with a 3lb pull. I found that the newer M70's with the MOA trigger are easy to adjust down to about 3lbs. Two of my M70 were bought in early 2000 they had the old Winchester trigger. I have found that you can get all of them to shoot well for hunting at 3-400 yr if you work at it. My first one a 300WSM Coyote is very accurate. My second one a 270WSM Featherweight was also very accurate. Since I only bought my pre64 30-06 a few months ago I have yet to work out the perfect load for it.

 

[B-LOT Banga]

I had Timney install their trigger in my Post 64 model 70 (push feed). After receiving my rifle back, I tested the safety and it seemed to work ok. I took my rifle to the range, shot less than 20 rounds, brought it home, cleaned it and put it in the rack. That was two years ago. This spring I was going to take it to the range, but found that if I squeeze the trigger while the safety ON the hammer is released and strikes the firing pin. The rifle then de-cocks when the safety is moved to OFF! If I had a round in the chamber it may discharge!

I contacted Timney and they asked for pictures of the trigger installation, which I sent. They have never responded to that or my follow-up emails!

I believe the problem is that they took too much metal off the cocking piece or changed the angle. I tested this by putting the bolt from my 670 in my model 70, safety and trigger work as they should. Put the 70 bolt in my model 670 and the problem transferred to my 670. So that tells me it is a waste of time to remove the Timney and install the original trigger.

Since the push feed cocking piece is manufacture discontinued and I'm unable to locate a new or used one, I will be taking it to Ahlman's in Minnesota. They will build up the safety notch and recut it. Lesson learned the hard way.

I will be totally honest. I took off too much material off of my sons firing pin and I didn't take measurements before I started, so I wouldnt know how much material was taken off. So I took off a little too much where the safety would be good, but in middle position when the trigger is pulled it would release the pin. When switching to the fire position it would fire immediately.

I looked over the net and it's discontinued. So I went back and thought about it that the sear is holding it back so I took some material off where the sear sits and took off .012" thus making the safety pin contact the notch again and it worked. Now I know I will get everyone jumping on me for doing what I did, no problem I'm being honest. I messed up and fixed it. I live in Hawaii, shipping round trip would be $250+ and what ever the gunsmith charges I'm guessing $100-$150? Anyways I did it for free... it's mechanical and that's why I want to take notes of angles, depths and measurements before I start so I know where I messed up when I do and learn from it. It now works perfectly and from what I'm reading I did a better job than timney. I know my pin moved for a little but it still strikes hard, My son shot 30 rds yesterday and found an even better load than before. It's an old push feed M70 I'm 270 weatherby magnum that I bought used. If your not confident send it to a qualified smith, I'm not a smith but I fixed it, ran into another issue and fixed it again in 3 hrs of my time plus some knowledge learned.