MOA differences between Savage model 12 actions, and model 10 actions.

[Dialing Long Distance]

I learned something new today, I am not sure if this is common knowledge, or if this is something unique to my rifles. I have a Savage model 12 LRP chambered in 260 Remington. I just purchased a Savage model 10 chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, because I really like both rounds, and was looking for a deer hunting/coyote hunting/do everything rifle for the north east in a lighter weight rifle in 6.5 caliber.

Anyway, on the model 12, I had a 20 MOA Nightforce mount on that action, and topped it with a Sightron 4-20x50 MOA scope. On the model 10, I was running the stock mount (0 MOA) that came on the rifle. It happened to come with a low cost scope already mounted on the rifle, which ended up getting switched out for another Sightron 4-20x50 MOA scope. (Yes, I like these scopes allot and would recommend them to anybody.)

Recently, I decided to change out the mount set up's on my scopes. I moved the 20 MOA Nightforce mount to my model 10, and purchased an EGW 40 MOA mount for the model 12.

After mounting both scopes, which are identical models, and zeroing both rifles at 100 yards, I decided to see how much elevation travel I would have on each rifle. With the EGW 40 MOA mount on the model 12, my scope has about 75 minutes of elevation available before it tops out now, which is what I was expecting. What surprised me, was that with the Nightforce 20 MOA mount put on the model 10, I have 71 minutes of elevation available in that scope before it bottoms out. Both scopes have about 80 minutes of total elevation adjustment.

This tells me that my savage model 10 has about 20 minutes of elevation in the action before installing my scope mount. Is this common knowledge or is this something that I had missed? This is my first model 10 and I don't remember reading anything about the actions already having 20 minutes of angle.

 

[Hatrick]

Do both rifles reguire the same number mount? Some actions are not level in the top mounts.

 

[Dialing Long Distance]

They seem to be interchangeable. The Nightforce mount fits on the model 10 as well as it does the 12.

 

[Joefrazell]

Are either of the bases bedded? Ive had bedding a scope base change my available moa adjustment by like 10 moa.

 

[Remmy700]

Interesting. How would you build MOA into a round action that does not have integral scope mount or mounts? Hopefully some Savage experts will chime in.

 

[johnnyk]

I would think the actions are the same, not 100% sure though. My first suspect would be the EGW base. Is it a true 40MOA or more closer to 20? How do you tell? By measuring the two mounts on each end.
My reasoning is that I have "heard" that EGW's weren't always exactly as packaged.
Does anyone truly know how to validate a mounts MOA?
I have a 0 MOA (as packaged!) EGW on my Savage 112 and 20 MOA mount (Badger Ord. or NF?) on a Remington 700 Sendero. I will try to put the calipers on them tonight. johnnyk.

 

[gohring3006]

I have 5 Savage rifles, and two required bedding the rear of the base, the others didn't. I see no reason why the actions needing bedded has a "negative" impact on the angle, the ones that didn't need bedded, could be "positive" several Moa.

 

[learning]

I would guess it is due to the action not being trued, the threads are probably just not running parallel to the top of the action. I have a 700 that Kirby Allen trued for me and now I have the moa I should. Before I didn't have the moa I should have had.

 

[Dialing Long Distance]

I can't think of a real explanation. The EGW does seem to be a 40MOA base. I mounted that on my model 12, and it did give me the extra 20 minutes of adjustment over the Nightforce mount which is a 20MOA model. I just moved that 20MOA Nightforce to my savage model 10, and for some reason, the scope on that rifle has 71 minutes of available elevation adjustment, and both rifles are very accurate. The Model 12 is consistently hitting around .3MOA, the Model 10 is about .6-.7.

I did not bed these mounts to either rifle. They seem to fit very well, so I just used some blue Loctite on the threads.

 

[NEMTHunter]

I can't think of a real explanation. The EGW does seem to be a 40MOA base. I mounted that on my model 12, and it did give me the extra 20 minutes of adjustment over the Nightforce mount which is a 20MOA model. I just moved that 20MOA Nightforce to my savage model 10, and for some reason, the scope on that rifle has 71 minutes of available elevation adjustment, and both rifles are very accurate. The Model 12 is consistently hitting around .3MOA, the Model 10 is about .6-.7.

I did not bed these mounts to either rifle. They seem to fit very well, so I just used some blue Loctite on the threads.

A good way to see how well they fit is to just snug ONE screw on ONE end of the base and see how it responds. If it picks up the other side at all its not sitting flat at all. I check both sides that way. Just did that today and had the base pick up off the action almost 1/16 of a inch on the other side. But was tight when I ran the screw in the other side of the base. Not to mention a bedded rail has more recoil strength then a non bedded rail.

 

[Hotolds442]

You're assuming that the bore is concentric with the action top surface on each rifle. You can be assured that it isn't. Savage just doesn't build to that precision level. They "hand straighten" their barrels at the factory. How much is "close enough" for them? How much does the point of aim change if you had the ability to rotate the barrel 1/2 turn in the action? 1/4 turn? Be thankful that it doesn't shoot 2 feet to the right like some new Savage rifles do.

 

[Hotolds442]

You're assuming that the bore is concentric with the action top surface on each rifle. You can be assured that it isn't. Savage just doesn't build to that precision level. They "hand straighten" their barrels at the factory. How much is "close enough" for them? How much does the point of aim change if you had the ability to rotate the barrel 1/2 turn in the action? 1/4 turn? Be thankful that it doesn't shoot 2 feet to the right like some new Savage rifles do.

 

[gohring3006]

All of my problems were solved with bedding the base. The "hand straitened barrels" have nothing to do with a poorly machined base or action.
It's always a elevation problem for me.

 

[Dialing Long Distance]

You're assuming that the bore is concentric with the action top surface on each rifle. You can be assured that it isn't. Savage just doesn't build to that precision level. They "hand straighten" their barrels at the factory. How much is "close enough" for them? How much does the point of aim change if you had the ability to rotate the barrel 1/2 turn in the action? 1/4 turn? Be thankful that it doesn't shoot 2 feet to the right like some new Savage rifles do.

I understand that they're not built to a custom rifle's precision level, they're mass produced rifles, Remington's and Winchesters are probably built no more precise than a Savage, they're all coming from a mass produced factory. Though the model 12 line Savages are trued actions, trued bolt heads, etc. from the factory.

I've never had a Savage that did not shoot, not to say that they are not out there, but It seems that the 'hand straightened' barrels do the job. If they didn't, and people were 'lucky to get one that didn't shoot 2 feet to the right', they wouldn't be in business, considering the competition that's out there.

My question was about possible MOA differences between actions, though I understand that it could be many things, including the barrel, your comment sounds like the classic argument were someone is saying that Chevy is better than Ford and you're lucky to get one that runs. I have rifles from all of the major makers, and for the money, I've been very happy with my Savages.