MOA challenge

Discussion in 'AR15/10 Rifles' started by rcoody, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    For all out there with AR's that can shoot less than MOA groups

    The challenge is to shoot 5 five shot groups on the same target with all groups averaging less than 1 MOA. Shot off of a normal rifle rest and back bag. No lead sleds or vices. You will know if you cheated. This is all about you.

    I will post one I shot today. Not my best work. Started out with a nice 5 shot half in group and then I pulled one on the next group. Started on another target and that first group didn't make my happy so j just ran them out. Anyway it is less that 1 MOA

    Come show me up
     

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  2. mtwarych

    mtwarych Well-Known Member

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    I'm in.

    I have to wait until I get my rifle back. Then it's on.
     
  3. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    100 yards. 5 shot, off a Caldwell rest, rear bag. Stock 1:9, 24" DPMS Varmint barrel on a standard Colt lower with RRA match trigger with JP spring kit/3.5#. NF NXS 5.5x 22x50.
    Lapua brass, 25gr Varget, BR4 primer, 69gr SMK.
    This is my 200/300 yard egg shooter. I have over 2000 rounds down the tube and it's still holding.
    Note: the white spot at the bottom of the diamond is not a hole, camera glare.
     

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  4. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    that is good shooting. you should show us just how consistent that gun is. Shoot the 5 five shot groups on one target. I know I have never shot at .25 inch group with my AR.

    now after yesterday I decided to see just how good I could do. It will be a royal PITA but I have loaded up 50 70gr VLD's 0.01 into the lands. I will have to single load each one but my experience is that that's the best it is going to get.

    Range opens at noon. Ready and waiting.
     
  5. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't think there is much of s differrnce if any shooting a five shot group at individusl vs a single target at a sitting. As I mentioned in the original post, I have used this rifle for Egg Shoot competition for th last 5 years. This completion entails shooting three relays over a three or four hour period. Each shooter has 5 minutes to shoot 5 eggs with 10 shots. You do get a brief period for sighters at the start of each relay. 15 eggs with 15 shots is a perfect score. This rifle has proven to be very consistent. I have been using the same scope settings since initial set up. Initial stocking of reloading components is important IMO.
     
  6. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    I would like to try that egg shooting. Where do you find out where they are having them.

    this is the first precision AR I have built. .223 wilde chamber. I am sure it would do better with a .223 match chamber. I have taken it apart and put it back together several times. It is a real learning experience. I think I am about to pull it apart again and glue the barrel extension into the receiver with locktite. Heard about it but don't know anyone who has done it.

    When I get my upper from Robert in 6mmAR turbo I hope to turn in better numbers. Then I will be ready for your egg shoots.
     
  7. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I bet your Whitely AR will do well. My 6mmAR also produces typical .25MOA. This was an exceptional group from it, but tough to reproduce on a regular basis. Another one of my egg shooters that is a little better in the wind than my 223. This rifle shoots better than I do. Egg shoots are fairly common in the Notheast. It"s a good substitute for developing long range shooting skills given the lack of areas to shoot and hunt at the longer distances. Hitting an egg at 300 yards with even a little wind or mirage is pretty tough but great pracice. The AR's while rare, do very well against the bolts if set up well.
     

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  8. Savageman69

    Savageman69 Well-Known Member

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    I dont have any 5 shot 5 group targets, I usually group 3 shots.
    But I accept the challenge and will go out and try.

    Personally I find that 3 shots removes human error better than 5 shots, I usually group 4 super tight and then "the pressures on" to get that 5th shot in and I pull it a little.
    So I have very few .5 MOA 5shot groups. not because the gun isnt capable its me

    I do have some targets with 3 shot groups I shot last weekend 1 group is .187!!!! center to center the others are .343 .289 .461, and the last was a called "flyer" group of .892
    I was using Black Hills 5.56 77gr SMK at a surprising 2800-2815fps measured with a magnetospeed chronograph (love that thing)
    And my scope is a Vortex Viper HST 4-16x44 Ive got an SWFA 3-15x42 on the way.
    My gun started life as a Bushmaster XME2S carbine I got a Rock River ATH upper Stainless wylde chamber 18" heavy profile .950 under handguard and .750 after gas block
    I was using a Jard "3.5#" trigger, that really pulls at 5.5# with some creep.

    I just got a Hiperfire 24C trigger and its miles better its truly a match trigger. I expect much more consistent group size. The rifle is surely capable, the old trigger and the meat bag shooting it are in question.
     
  9. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    yep 5 5 shot groups is a real equalizer. the gun has got to shoot and you have to keep your stuff together for 25 shots.

    Now they have to be same day same target but nothing says you can't take a long break for the barrel to cool down and you to get your concentration back.
     
  10. ShtrRdy

    ShtrRdy Well-Known Member

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    Does the 5 shot group need to include a cold bore shot? With the 5 groups being done on 5 different days?
     
  11. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    nope you can warm up all you want, or you can wait for the barrel to cool down between groups.

    There has to be 5 five shot groups on the same target in the same day. No lead sleds or vices. Just regular front rest and back bag. Now these are all AR's no bolt guns.

    Hell there really aren't any rules. You are the only one that will know. Not much satisfaction in cheating.

    Next post is what I did today
     
  12. rcoody

    rcoody Well-Known Member

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    Ok I have had some interesting developments. I decided to glue my barrel extension into my receiver. No problems there but when I went to the range yesterday hoping to shoot bugholes the load that had been shooting best scattered like a shotgun. An oh **** moment! I had some loads from past load development in the truck so I just decided to give them a shot. They shot better. Well I said back to the drawing board. Went home and looked it my log book for past experiments. I decided that load development was going to have to start over. I picked varget, RL15 and CFE223 and loaded up three groups for each in the midrange of the recommended loads. I am grabbing at straws at this point. Varget didn't show me anything, RL15 showed promise with one load and CFE223 looked good on two of the loads. I picked the RL15 and loaded it up and shot the MOA challenge. Just a slight improvement from last week but I do like the consistency of the groups better. That is except group 3. I lost it on that one. Hopefully with more load development I will find the magic. Next weekend I will investigate CFE223 and H4895.

    Seems gluing in the barrel extension changed the entire barrel harmonics

     

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  13. Savageman69

    Savageman69 Well-Known Member

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    Ive heard of people doing this but why would you want to glue your barrel into the upper receiver?
    Is there some play in your barrel extension to receiver mating?
    The AR I built had a very tight fit, I almost had to force it to seat fully. That and a properly torqued barrel nut means there is absolutely no play whatsoever.

    I could see how glue would change barrel harmonics, but I dont know how you would control that, It seems completely hit or miss weather or not gluing a barrel would improve or worsen the harmonics.

    What did you use? I would think basically any glue you would use would melt and re harden as the barrel heated and cooled constantly changing any effects it might have.

    Oh and my new SWFA 3-15x42 should come in a few days so I should have a target to post this weekend for the MOA challenge
     
  14. ShtrRdy

    ShtrRdy Well-Known Member

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    rcoody - you must be a pretty consistent shooter! I don't think I could keep it together for 5 five-shot groups. But it will give me something to strive for.