MOA at 400 but can't get on target at 650?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Tommy1984, Sep 19, 2019.


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  1. clownbuster

    clownbuster Well-Known Member

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    No no no no no...no...ugh
     
  2. thwatson2

    thwatson2 Active Member

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    You should walkout slower, got to 450 then 500,550,600,then 650. Calm winds don’t mean no wind. By going slowly out you will see if there is a grouping going right or left(wind) or it’s just opening up(loosing stabilization).
     
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  3. greenejc

    greenejc Well-Known Member

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    If you have a way to do it, do what Mach 1 advised and put up paper. See what the bullet is doing at distance. The hits on paper will give you better information about what is happening at distance. Also, if you have a spotting scope, use that to watch the strike of the round. Put your target up at 50 yard intervals and fire 5 to 10 rounds. If the bullet has gone unstable, that will show it. You'll also be able to tell if its stringing due to differences in velocity in individual shots. Wait about 10 minutes between shot groups so the barrel can cool. If its cool enough to hold for about 30 seconds without being uncomfortable, its cool enough to shoot true. Shoot a group at distance, and then go back to 400 yards and shoot another control group. If the rifle still shoots to 1 moa at 400 and does it consistently, its not the rifle. Just a question: after you shot at 650yds, did you go back to 400yds and shoot again? If you did, what was the result?
     
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  4. Rflshootr

    Rflshootr Well-Known Member

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    1+ .....what she said!
     
  5. eric1115

    eric1115 Active Member

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    I may have glossed over something, so mya if this is already addressed... But 2 shots 3.5" apart at 410 does not constitute "shooting MOA out to 400." I would suggest shooting a 5 shot group at 200ish and again at 400 on paper to see what's really going on.

    Let the rifle cool, as even 5 in quick succession can really heat up if you're shooting a magnum out of something with a light barrel. 10 in a row will get very warm indeed.

    I agree that two shots under 1 MOA centered on your point of aim is confidence inspiring, and a good indicator, but it's simply not enough data to be sure of what the rifle (or you) are doing.

    Lastly, consider the possibility that you had built a better position for the 400 target. If you had poor rear support, poor cheek weld, different amount of recoil management, etc that can start to really shift poi. Same front support for both distances?
     
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  6. clownbuster

    clownbuster Well-Known Member

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    ... and shoot paper, not rocks
     
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  7. NorsemanAlaska

    NorsemanAlaska Well-Known Member

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    As usual, lots of great info on this post, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth.
    Something's loose, barrel was hot and/or the ammo is not of a good quality balanced powder charge.
    I shoot a 95 grain Federal .224 Valkyrie at 1,000 yards and ding the plate all day. Went to the cheaper Federal 75 grain plinker ammo and could NOT hit past 750 yards. I couldn't even see a splash at 1,000....Good luck...
     
  8. powderBurnz

    powderBurnz Active Member

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    Was the rifle canted to one side? Do you have a level on the rifle when shooting? That'll throw you off even if slightly canted, expounded the further the range.
     
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  9. Rogue Rider

    Rogue Rider Well-Known Member

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    I agree, check the scope base for any movement, then go back to shooting at your 400 , .if your still on at 400 have your spotter guide you back out to your 650 and make any adjustments for wind, bullet drop, etc.
    Flags can also be very helpful at that distance.
     
  10. Tikkashooter

    Tikkashooter Active Member

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    If you are shooting great at a certain distance and then all over at another, a lot of the times its if your parallax is off. to test this, look through your scope and move you head side to side and up and down slightly, if your corsshairs stay on target and do nto move you are good, if the crossairs jump around your parallax is off and you need to keep turning the parallax dial till the crossharis hold
     
  11. Josh Heitzenroder

    Josh Heitzenroder New Member

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    Sounds like a bullet stabilization problem. My .308 will punch clovers all day out to 300 with 110 SST's but completely falls apart a about 330. 150 SST's are all over the place until 290-300 and then they true up. I dont understand it but I have taken gophers out to 750. It's a pain but it works for me
     
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  12. vancewalker007

    vancewalker007 Well-Known Member

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    Remember, that 250 yard difference is farther than most deer are killed in the US every year.

    At 650 yards with no accurate spotting you're basically wasting ammo. Everything everyone has said can pile up on you last 400-500 yards; wind, big ES in velocity ( more than 20fps), rifle cant, scope cant, poor shooting position, poor trigger pull, incorrect breathing, not focusing on the reticle instead of the rock, scope not setup correctly. You get the point. I've seen this with lots of rifles, once you step out past 400-500 weirdness can take over. The biggest is wind. Even a small puff of wind somewhere in between can screw up things.

    I'd move in and start at 450, then 500,. etc. Have a 60x spotter there with someone who does not flinch at the shot have a wind meter, go on the web and research mirage reading. Go to a podcast app and find the Backcountry hunter podcasts #194 and #195. It's a 2 part one that is loaded with great info on how to shoot long range.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  13. 2C/1H

    2C/1H Well-Known Member

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    Oh and yes check parallax you both will have a different setting too so dont rely on what either of you are seeing

    If you aren't seeing your target clear parallax will cause a POI shift for sure

    And I suspect depending on your shooting frequency that light rifle can cause some inconsistencies too
     
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  14. BJH

    BJH Well-Known Member

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    You can't get an accurate ballistic chart and hold over value from a chrono velocity. It gets you close, and out to 400 with that cartridge you may not see a major discrepancy. But you have to verify your drops and make the corrections in your ballistics program.
    Since you have the Gunwerks rangefinder, use their ballistic program that is available on their website and verify your drops and make the corrections.
    I see a lot of people enter a chrono velocity and then get really confused about why they can hit a target to 400 yards or so, but when the range gets extended they can no longer hit the target. Go watch the videos on ballistic verification from Gunwerks and get back on target.