Minimum Velocity needed for hunting games at extreme distances

[300rum]

Hi,

i'm trying to find the minimum Velocty needed for Berger OTM, SMK, Accubond LR bullets to open up on games at extreme distances.
Caliber of choice 338 edge and 7 rm.

far now i used smk and berger on games up to 1350 yrds.
want to extend the distance without wounded game, and i need real data from your own experience.
i keep my min velocity at 1600 fps, but i was wondering how low i can go..

Minimum Velocity needed on game
Smk - 1800fps
Berger OTM- 1600fps
accubond LR -1300fps (by nosler claims)

Thank you for your help.

 

[Joefrazell]

Anyone? I don't have enough experience to chime in. But what I do know is if you hit the animal in the vitals it will die even if it pokes a hole... but you may never find it.

 

[300rum]

You are right, but I need to know for 338edge with SMK 300gr how low you can used the bullet on impact velocity....

 

[Deleted member 46119]

You are asking about proven terminal ballistics for a target bullet. That is a difficult one to answer.

There are "rules" you could go by but these "rules" get weird when not using a hunting bullet. You basically quote the "rules" so you are educated.

We've had the debate many times about how much energy is needed at impact. The results were it depends on what game.

So, what game are you hunting?

 

[300rum]

Dear jfseaman,

I know the story, about hunting bullets and match bullets. I'm using match bullets aka SMK and berger OTm for 10 years on games, and never have one run away (up to 1350 yrds)
Now I want to extend the distance on safe manner.

I read some one of the member mentioned using 300gr SMK up to 2000 yards as long the bullets fly SUPERSONIC - will be devastating on elk.

Just want to check this statement before running around and poke animals that far.

My intended game this year are elk and mulley deers what ever gives the opportunity first.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I get it. I wish I had an answer for you.

You know that the 300 SMK will go sub-sonic at about 1700 yards from a 338 Edge with a muzzle velocity of ~2850. It would take about 3250 to stay super sonic to 2000 yards at sea level.

If you and/or your guide is willing to retrieve past 1350 yards and most important, you are confident of the shot. Go for it.

Boy wouldn't it be great to have a tracking device in the bullet like you can get for arrows now.

 

[300rum]

Yes I know and I'm fully aware... here we got elk season on oct 24 and we have pretty warm weather 40F and just 25.6inHg and at 2000 yards I have 1127fps with 845ft lbs left...
So I will be fine = still at supersonic speeds

Question is how will 300gr SMK will open up at 1200-1300 fps speed on games (double lung or high shoulder)

Of course the distance will varied based on temperature, baro, humidity, Coriolis, azimuth, wind, etc.
I'm not stuck at 2000 (I think was a bad example) what I mean is will 300 SMK open and do damage on elk size games at very low speeds (1200-1400fps)????
Will be a viable kill shot or the elk will walk away and I have to track him for hours?
I want all my shots on games to get them on spot or max 10-20 yards walk from the impact

,

 

[300rum]

Think is I shot elk in every year, and for the past few years I came across a big herd of elk what they like to hang for days on same spot. (1600-2000yards) away. They stay there for days, and are very relaxed, no hunting pressure at all.
I'm training very hard for this shots doing lots of shooting up to 2400 yards and I'm pretty confident on my skills to shot that far away to put a bullet on elk vitals zone.
As you can see i;m not irresponsible hunter who think can just go out and shoot some bullets down the range hopping will connect with the game from 10-20 rounds and then come back and brag about it.
Is not my way... I want to do my own research, hear from others who did this shots, hear the pros and cons and then decide for myself if opportunity arrives.

So if somebody on this forum shoot big games with SMK on very low impact speeds i want to hear about so I can collect my reals data from people who did it, and also want to know damage on game produced by SMK on this low speeds... and see if my goal is realistic or just a dream...

I really appreciate for all your posts, and i'm looking forward to hear from you

 

[RockyMtnMT]

This is a hard subject. It is the only place that I use my opinion for data on our bullets. We advertise a minimum impact vel of 1800fps even though all of our bullets deform properly at lower vel than that. After much testing I believe that 1800fps is the lowest vel that still causes significant tissue damage for clean kills. This is, in my opinion, for any bullet. It takes speed for bullets to cause damage by tearing tissue. Torn tissue does not bleed as well as cut tissue.

Enough of my opinion. You may get your best answer by low vel impact testing your bullets. If you use reduced loads to test with run the ballistics in a twist calculator to make sure that your stability factor is high enough. In our testing we have found that bullets that have a stability factor below 1.5sg do not deform as well. This will be a good thing to consider as you extend your hunting range. Bullets that are less than 1.5sg will tend to yaw on impact and not deform. Often they will not track true or tumble. You hear stories about both of your selected bullets not opening and I am pretty sure it is not a failure of the bullet but a failure to have a high enough stability factor to initiate expansion.

Good luck and good hunting.

Steve

 

[Bravo 4]

I have dropped elk with a 300 SMK from my Edge down to a velocity of just a little over 1800 fps. DRT with a shoulder shot, found a perfectly mushroomed bullet under the hide on the off side. I have killed a mature whitetail buck at a distance where the impact velocity was around 1350 fps. Went through both shoulders and exited, another DRT. I was pretty confident in the shot, it may have even been a bit careless.
My opinion is this: I would not hit an elk at a velocity under 1600 with that bullet. I think this is stretching the limits of expansion. If I were in a place that I worried about that deer running off and potentially getting away, I wouldn't have taken that shot. I shoot for shoulders and try to take animals down immediately (for my own reasons).
Also, and I'm sure you already know this, make sure the tips are open and free of debris.

 

[300rum]

Dear Bravo4

how much damage was on WT at 1350fps with SMK?
entrance hole should be small but after you hit the front shoulder spatula should open up significant to get nice damage to lungs on the way out.
How big was the exit hole? 2-3-4 inch or larger?

 

[300rum]

Dear Steve,
You are right at the point and i'm with your statements on bullets tumbling on flight if are not pushed supersonic or closed to low speed.
You are designing and manufacture CNC SOLID Bullets right?
they perform different, and believe I'm designing my own right now and in few week I will have first batch out the cnc for testing.
We noticed when shooting CHINCHAGA steel tip 300gr 338cal on 2400 yards (just 50yards under the subsonic speed they thumble and bounce on contact with the WATER or GROUND.
At first we tought they fragmented on impact (water) but we did further test and noticed they bounce like o rock thrown by a kid in water for fun....
Was a very sharp learning curve, and we switched to BERGER OTM and we never encounter the same symptoms.
We pushed them harder at 2600 yrds (OTM) and we could predict all the time the impact. they shoot amazing subsonic It is very hard to bitt BERGERs subsonic.
Down size of OTM on Games they work good no doubt but expansion is not as great as the SMK's and you have to be ready with follower shot just in case.

with SMK's we never have to used 2nd shot. One and game over.
Solid bulets (CNC made) they need 1800fps to open up...
Did you play with the hollow hole to make it deeper like 0.7-0.8in deep - to give the bullet a chance to open up even at lower speeds?

 

[Bravo 4]

Dear Bravo4

how much damage was on WT at 1350fps with SMK?
entrance hole should be small but after you hit the front shoulder spatula should open up significant to get nice damage to lungs on the way out.
How big was the exit hole? 2-3-4 inch or larger?

The exit hole was small enough for me too say that expansion (if any) was minimal. Found copper jacket, just a small piece of what I believe came from the tip. Internal damage wasn't spectacular, as in not anywhere near what I've seen from a 300 SMK that expanded. I personally love this bullet for hunting, it usually leaves a large wound channel. I tried the 300 grain Bergers last year and wasn't as happy so this year I'll be switching back to the Matchkings.

 

[Bucknut]

300rum.... I would suggest seeking out Broz (Might be easier to catch him on longrangeonly.com) for the information you're after.