I know that this one is going to cause some quarrels, but I am going to ask anyway. What would you consider to be the minimum G1 ballistic coefficient for a long range bullet? Please give your opinions there is no wrong answer.
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Thanks
Minimum Long Range Ballistic Coefficient
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winmag
Well-Known Member
Guess it would depend alot on what caliber, cartrige, intended use, and what your idea of ''long range'' is, before one could give an educated answer/opinion.
LouBoyd
Well-Known Member
A G1 BC of 0.666 * is the minimum at which I consider a bullet to be "Long Range". Likewise, bullets under 0.333 BC are short range. Those in between are "mid range". Any over 0.999 are extreme range. It's a good thing it's already been stipulated there is no wrong answer.
For the same reason I consider 333 yards, 666 yards, and 999 yards as the break points for short, medium, long, and extreme range hunting. When you just say "Long Range Hunting" no one has a clue what it means. Long range shooting is an entirely different matter.
For the same reason I consider 333 yards, 666 yards, and 999 yards as the break points for short, medium, long, and extreme range hunting. When you just say "Long Range Hunting" no one has a clue what it means. Long range shooting is an entirely different matter.
Buffalobob
Well-Known Member
Go and read the article by Litz. Pay a lot of attention to the first graph which contains everything one needs to know.
What's Wrong With .30 Caliber?
What's Wrong With .30 Caliber?
You guys are great. Thanks for your insight. I guess that a little more insight to my question would be a great help. I have a Ruger 25-06 in my gun cabinet that is very lonely. I have taken the time to develop several of my other calibers and this one has been patiently waiting. The funny thing is that it is one of my favorite rifles. I am considering buying a new Vortex Viper 6-20 x 44 -30mm with a mil dot reticle for it. I have found that there are two different Bullets for this rifle that offer a G1 BC in the .453 to .466 range. They are the Berger 115 VLD and the Nosler 115 Ballistic tip. I have taken both of these slugs with realistic theoretical numbers through the JBM Ballistics calculators. They shoot flatter than my 300 Win Mag with a 180 Grn in the G1 BC range of .507 across the entire spectrum out to 1000 yds.
As I am new to this long range begins at 400 yards and ends somewhere around 800. I am sure as my experience increases so will the distance.
As I am new to this long range begins at 400 yards and ends somewhere around 800. I am sure as my experience increases so will the distance.
winmag
Well-Known Member
IMO, both are great choices in the caliber, cartrige, and intended range you have stated. They should perform quite well.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Winmags first response kinda hits it in the head. It depends on caliber/velocity/what your purpose is/and what is long range to you. In 25 caliber I have several off the '06 case along with the 257 wby and 257 stw. The 25-06 can be used effectively to 600 yards with the proper bullet. It just can't get enough velocity on the heavier bullets to satisfy my limits on sure kills beyond that. It can be very accurate at 1000 yard matches with high bc heavy bullets but not for sure kills. My 257 wby shoots the 100 grain swift scirroco with .429 bc at 3780 fps. It is a lazer to 650 yards and makes a great 25 cal deer/antelope killer in that range and just a bit further.
As the game gets bigger and further away the best choices get to be larger calibers and heavier bullets to do the best job. So no definitive answer for your question. And don't rely on balistic tables. They can give you the numbers but how well a bullet actually kills is a whole nother story. True killability can not be derived from a balistic chart. It only predicts ballistics with some degree of accuracy. How a bullet performs on game and how it transfers that energy to the animal are completely different issues and unfortunately only realized through plenty of experience.
As the game gets bigger and further away the best choices get to be larger calibers and heavier bullets to do the best job. So no definitive answer for your question. And don't rely on balistic tables. They can give you the numbers but how well a bullet actually kills is a whole nother story. True killability can not be derived from a balistic chart. It only predicts ballistics with some degree of accuracy. How a bullet performs on game and how it transfers that energy to the animal are completely different issues and unfortunately only realized through plenty of experience.
This helps a bunch guys. I have an antelope hunt coming up and would like to use this rifle as it has not killed anything yet. I am only really comfortable shooting at game from the 5-650 yard mark. However, for things without a heartbeat i would like to try out to a thousand and wanted to know if this combination was capable. Also what would be looked for in a bullet so I could apply it to my other calibers.
winmag
Well-Known Member
The gain of a high B.C. bullet to 500yds +/- will be pretty minimal. Ya it sure wont hurt. It should extend the velocity of the bullet wich in turn extends the range at wich you have enough energy and speed to open the bullet and do damage. The higher B.C. doesnt realy start to shine for bucking wind untill it gets out there a ways. It will help up close too but not too noticeably.
Imo a guy needs to take a couple things into account before choosing a bullet.
1. What caliber/cartrige, your gonna be dissapointed if you wanna shoot a .500+ B.C. in a .223
2. What is your intended use, Varmint hunting with Partitions, and A-Frames makes about as much sense to me as using too fragile a bullet up close on elk. Will either way work? ya, but but youll likely get better results with the right bullet
3. How far do you intend to shoot, 5-600 and less, use a different bullet than 5-600 plus (IMO depending on cal/cartrige)
Anyone who's ever read any post Ive put on here knows Im a big fan of tough bullets for MY hunting style with my 270wsm, and game I hunt. I choose to limmit my shots to 600 and less for 2 reasons. One, I hunt very steep country and refuse to pack a 12-15 lb rifle, and Two, MY personal ability hasnt caught up with my imagination quite yet. So I shoot tough bullets vs fragile ones. My 140gr Accubonds have a .496 B.C. wich is alot lower than the Hornady SST 150gr wich had a .525 B.C. My personal effective range doesnt require a fragile, high B.C. bullet. Someday when I get better, and better my equipment specificly for L/R hunting then Ill be using fragile bullets.
So to sum it all up, opinions vary, and B.C. while helpfull, doesnt tell the whole story on bullet selection.
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WinMag, Well said. That makes perfect sense to me. Currently I am shooting Barnes TSX 100gr Bt out of my 06 and they shoot great. I have had good luck with Barnes bullets, however they do not shine in the BC category. That is why with an antelope hunt I thought about changing it up a little. I have traditionally liked a tougher bullet also. I have been nervous of ballistic tips after having seen what a 150gr 7mm rem mag looked like when I shot two cow elk. The situation would have been a test for any bullet. Perhaps I am over thinking this a little too much. But also had some long range targets in mind.
I do not care to pack a heavy rifle either and for my families style of rifle hunting, shots do not usually extend much beyond 250 yards. So this long range stuff is frankly new and unchartered territory to me.
I do not care to pack a heavy rifle either and for my families style of rifle hunting, shots do not usually extend much beyond 250 yards. So this long range stuff is frankly new and unchartered territory to me.
winmag
Well-Known Member
This is one reason I love the 140gr Accubond so well in my 270wsm. It gives me the best of everything in my list of requirements. Relitively high (for a 270) B.C., tough bonded bullet, but with a catch, the ballistic tip helps initiate expansion at lower velocities as well(Longer Range). So I can take full advantage of tough bonded bullets in my situation thru the entire range I intend to shoot, and I can rely on them NOT TO BLOW UP on impact at close range. (like a tipped cup/core bullet)
I dont know about the quarter bore. Im guessing an Accubond would work well in the range youve stated, and for the game also. The TTSX is supposed to be real good as well and expand better at lower velocity than the TSX due to the tip. Both however will hold up well and are considered ''tough bullets''. How fast your gonna push them makes a big difference too. If you get too fast and too tough a bullet at too close a range, youll likely wind up with the same problemb that has plagued the 7mm mag since it was invented. Small holes clear thru with virtually 0 damage inside. No body is gonna down play the effectiveness of the 7mm at longer range, but Ive had WAY too many bad experiences with them up close. So again choose your bullet according to the cal/cartrige-(speed) and intended use and range. I like a tipped bonded bullet for most of the things I hunt, and ranges and animals I shoot, and velocities attained. From my 338 wm -300wby -30-06 to my -270wsm. For my 30-30 and smaller/slower cartriges I shoot Lever Revolution and other more ''fragile'' bullets.
Youll do well if you take in all the factors including, but not limmited to B.C. to choose a bullet. And remember there is no ''WRONG'' answer when it comes to peoples personal preferance on wich bullet best suits THIER needs. Theres just too many opinions and choices in bullet performance to put a tag on wich is best for everyone. But there are bullets better suited to different tasks. So look at everything involved before you make up your mind.
Win Mag
Thanks Again. And Again I agree with those methods of thinking. The 7mm Rem Mag is a punisher and tester of bullets. The situation on the two cow elk which I had mentioned were thus. Both shots were between the 50 - 70 yard range. So, very close. Both were complete broad side shots. Shot placement on one was right in the pocket. the other was higher up about mid way and halfway back the rib cage. The results were similar on both elk. Both made it about 30 yards and left a blood trail that a blind man could follow. I only found one bullet or the remains thereof. Neither bullet made a complete pass through. They both practically disintegrated. Looking back I realize the mistake I had made was poor bullet selection.
#1. Nosler Ballistic tip bullets are not made for thick skinned game. Even if it is just a Cow.
# 2. Although I did not create a fast load(The load was the minimum load in the book. It was the most accurate listed and I was 16 - 17 years old so I didn't want a punishing load) the shots were too close for that style of bullet and animal.
# 3. The Load was intended for deer but utilized for all purposes at that age and experience level. Like you have mentioned and I have learned there is no "ONE" do all bullet.
My thoughts for the 2 bullets that I had selected for 25-06 were;
# 1. They were the two bullets I could find for this caliber with the best BC.
# 2. Both bullet designs(at least to my thinking) would be well suited to thin skinned game.
# 3. Both bullets would expand reliably at close or long range with this caliber, weight and velocities.
# 4. Both bullets have good reviews for success from other hunters.
# 5. Both bullets are economical to shoot for hunting or target. (My biggest complaint with the Barnes that I am using now. They are great for shooting a few per year to hunt with but not to shoot a bunch at targets.)
# 6. I enjoy this Rifle and Caliber. Not to mention that it shoots under .5 moa at 100 yards and I consider it capable to shoot beyond my distance limits at this time.
Are there any things that I should consider that I had not thought of or mentioned. As I learn more all the time I am trying to apply it throughout. These principals will apply to each caliber I get or am involved with.
Thanks Again. And Again I agree with those methods of thinking. The 7mm Rem Mag is a punisher and tester of bullets. The situation on the two cow elk which I had mentioned were thus. Both shots were between the 50 - 70 yard range. So, very close. Both were complete broad side shots. Shot placement on one was right in the pocket. the other was higher up about mid way and halfway back the rib cage. The results were similar on both elk. Both made it about 30 yards and left a blood trail that a blind man could follow. I only found one bullet or the remains thereof. Neither bullet made a complete pass through. They both practically disintegrated. Looking back I realize the mistake I had made was poor bullet selection.
#1. Nosler Ballistic tip bullets are not made for thick skinned game. Even if it is just a Cow.
# 2. Although I did not create a fast load(The load was the minimum load in the book. It was the most accurate listed and I was 16 - 17 years old so I didn't want a punishing load) the shots were too close for that style of bullet and animal.
# 3. The Load was intended for deer but utilized for all purposes at that age and experience level. Like you have mentioned and I have learned there is no "ONE" do all bullet.
My thoughts for the 2 bullets that I had selected for 25-06 were;
# 1. They were the two bullets I could find for this caliber with the best BC.
# 2. Both bullet designs(at least to my thinking) would be well suited to thin skinned game.
# 3. Both bullets would expand reliably at close or long range with this caliber, weight and velocities.
# 4. Both bullets have good reviews for success from other hunters.
# 5. Both bullets are economical to shoot for hunting or target. (My biggest complaint with the Barnes that I am using now. They are great for shooting a few per year to hunt with but not to shoot a bunch at targets.)
# 6. I enjoy this Rifle and Caliber. Not to mention that it shoots under .5 moa at 100 yards and I consider it capable to shoot beyond my distance limits at this time.
Are there any things that I should consider that I had not thought of or mentioned. As I learn more all the time I am trying to apply it throughout. These principals will apply to each caliber I get or am involved with.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Last season my son easily took a nice trophy antelope right through the heart at 512 yards with his 257 wby and 100 grain barnes tsx. He also took a big trophy mulie at 364 yards with the same set up. It is a very good bullet. Also try the 100 grain swift scirroco. Higher .429 bc and probably the toughest lead core bullet on the market.
I also took a nice bull caribou at 500 yards with the same 100 grain barnes tsx.
I also took a nice bull caribou at 500 yards with the same 100 grain barnes tsx.
Wow, That is encouraging to hear. The Barnes TSX shoots well out of my rifle. Perhaps I don't need to do anything other than what I am already doing. I have often wondered about the Swift polymer tipped bullets, but never tried them. Sounds like I may need to.
