Minimalist load development, What next?

sjones

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I have a CA Ridgeline 28. I finally found some N570 shooting the 143HH. A jump of .060 gave me a just over a .250 MOA at 200 yds. .040, .050, .070 were in the .500 MOA range. I was using 86gr powder doing the seating test.
 

25WSM

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To the op. Can you show us your Satterlee results.? I use this method with every new rifle or load combo. There is a particular part of the nodes that seem to shoot the best. I do mostly . 02 increments but with a 28nos I would do . 03. But usually there will be a cluster of 3 to 4 rounds that indicate a node. To make this easy to understand I will do an example. Say you shoot 10 shots in your Satterlee test. Say shots 6 7 8 9 are all in the node. I have found the upper half of the nodes to shoot best and have lower es and SD. So I would drop 6 and 7. Now I have 8 and 9 to work with. Split it in the middle and shoot that load. The I do a seating adjustment in . 005 increments longer. I only shoot 2 shots for my initial seating test. You will see the group tighten and open easily with 2 shots per. When i find 2 seating depths that stayed tight I split them in the middle. Then I use that seating depth and my initial powder charge and shoot 5 shots. Normally this is a great load. But then I will go up. 02 and down . 02 on powder with the new seating depth. One of these 3 powder setting will be tightest. This can all be done to completion in 45 shots.
10 shots on initial satterlee test.
20 shots for 10 2 shot groups of seating
15 for 3 5 shot groups to finalize.
This method is simple and cover a very good range of seating depths and powder charges but really fine tunes quickly. Most of the time 20 shots can give you A real close tune.
Do 10 satterlee shots and then do 3 3 shot groups with .05 longer and shorter on seating depth. I use the 11th shot to foul barrel before the 3. 3 shot groups. On most guns this will get you very close. I do this 20 shot test for customers all the time and it's Amazing how good it works for being so quick.
Hope this helps someone.
Shep
 

Bigeclipse

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To the op. Can you show us your Satterlee results.? I use this method with every new rifle or load combo. There is a particular part of the nodes that seem to shoot the best. I do mostly . 02 increments but with a 28nos I would do . 03. But usually there will be a cluster of 3 to 4 rounds that indicate a node. To make this easy to understand I will do an example. Say you shoot 10 shots in your Satterlee test. Say shots 6 7 8 9 are all in the node. I have found the upper half of the nodes to shoot best and have lower es and SD. So I would drop 6 and 7. Now I have 8 and 9 to work with. Split it in the middle and shoot that load. The I do a seating adjustment in . 005 increments longer. I only shoot 2 shots for my initial seating test. You will see the group tighten and open easily with 2 shots per. When i find 2 seating depths that stayed tight I split them in the middle. Then I use that seating depth and my initial powder charge and shoot 5 shots. Normally this is a great load. But then I will go up. 02 and down . 02 on powder with the new seating depth. One of these 3 powder setting will be tightest. This can all be done to completion in 45 shots.
10 shots on initial satterlee test.
20 shots for 10 2 shot groups of seating
15 for 3 5 shot groups to finalize.
This method is simple and cover a very good range of seating depths and powder charges but really fine tunes quickly. Most of the time 20 shots can give you A real close tune.
Do 10 satterlee shots and then do 3 3 shot groups with .05 longer and shorter on seating depth. I use the 11th shot to foul barrel before the 3. 3 shot groups. On most guns this will get you very close. I do this 20 shot test for customers all the time and it's Amazing how good it works for being so quick.
Hope this helps someone.
Shep
See above I just posted them. You can see at the bottom left there is a slight flat spot and then again at the top right with sight drop in velocity. Not sure what happened there.
 

25WSM

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I would call the node on that at 73.8 to 74.4 best I can read your line. I always go by speed numbers. So the middle is 74.1 so I dump the bottom half of the node and now my working point is 74.1 to 74.4. so right in the middle of this will be where I start. My guess is 74.2 or 74.3 will be the best. What did you find. This formula has worked very good for me over the yrs. Satterlee even says that the back of the node right before it speeds up again is the best Try my number and see what you get.
Shep
 

25WSM

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Not enough info on the top node. It was starting to flatten and if you had no pressure yet would be worth doing the top of the ladder again with shots 8 9 and 10 then go 3 or 4 more steps if you don't hit pressure. Obviously when you see pressure stop there and don't go any higher. Sometimes the node ends right before the pressure ramps up again. That flat primer or hard bolt lift will be that next shot out of the node.
Shep
 

skipglo

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I shoot my 6.5prc well to 600 so I’m not worried about me. The previous owner of the gun had a load worked up shooting .3moa out to 300 with eldm so I was hoping I could find a decent load with hammer hunters.
Gotcha! Then seating depth it may be....but unfortunately not all bullets matched with the rifle are capable of .5 or less. All it's going to cost you at this point....is time and money.....good luck my friend.
 

Bigeclipse

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Not enough info on the top node. It was starting to flatten and if you had no pressure yet would be worth doing the top of the ladder again with shots 8 9 and 10 then go 3 or 4 more steps if you don't hit pressure. Obviously when you see pressure stop there and don't go any higher. Sometimes the node ends right before the pressure ramps up again. That flat primer or hard bolt lift will be that next shot out of the node.
Shep
I hit pressure at the top which is why I stopped but I was also testing at 80 degrees. I’m sure had I did that in the fall when I hunt I wouldn’t hit pressure since temps are in the 30-40s. The current load I’ve been working with that is at the .7moa is at 74 grains so in the “back half” of what you think I should drop. Maybe I’ll load up a few at 74.2 and see what happens there.
 

25WSM

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I think you will see improved SD and es which in turn should be more accurate at 500 for sure. Do 74.2 and 74.3 and see which one is better. I know why you did 74 but I think you will see an improvement in the upper half of the node not the middle.
Shep
 

Tommo64

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Sounds like you're on the right track. It might be worth trying different primers for what it will cost you in terms of components but fiddling with seating depth may be a little more costly in return for potentially little gain, judging by the comments re. Hammers not being particularly sensitive to seating depth. Can't speak from personal experience there I'm afraid. But at .7 moa you're already in the zone for shooting out to 500 I'd say.
 

25WSM

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I have found seating depth will make any bullet more accurate. No doubt some bullets are more tolerable to depth but all will have a sweet spot that they like best. I think seating depth and powder charge are equally important to accuacy.
Shep
 

Bigeclipse

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Just to keep everyone up to date I loaded up 3 rounds moving the bullet .010 further away from the lands and also 3 at the original test length but with different primers (CCI 250). Both tightened the groups but the primer tightened it significantly. First two rounds were touching each other and the other was .6 inches away. This is at a target which is 125 yards away so I may have just found the .5 moa 3 shot load I’ve been looking for. I will load some more with the new primers and test at 600.
 

Starlite

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I forgot to ask. Are you crimping your projectiles? With any hunting cartridge, I crimp. Ive gone back and crimped previously loaded hand-loads and was pleased To find my groups had shrunk. Just something to consider
 

Bigeclipse

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I forgot to ask. Are you crimping your projectiles? With any hunting cartridge, I crimp. Ive gone back and crimped previously loaded hand-loads and was pleased To find my groups had shrunk. Just something to consider
I do not crimp except for hand guns. I’ve never had rifle bullets move. Have you?
 

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