MatchKings ~ Accurate?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by todbartell, Jun 23, 2003.

  1. todbartell

    todbartell Member

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    Hello all, this is my first post. I'll start out by saying I'm not a real long range shooter, nor do I claim I am. Anyways, to my question.

    I shoot a Remington 700 stainless mtn. rifle in 260 Rem. My scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15X40mm. It is not scary accurate, but I'd say good for a factory rifle, MOA or less with favoured ammo. OK, today I shot some handloads with the Sierra 120 gr. HPBT MK, BC .409. Above 37 grs. RL15, touching the lands, I got an average of 1.65" for three groups of 3 shots each at 100 yards. This isn't really too good, for a match bullet.

    What should I do to improve this?

    With 120 gr. Nosler BT's, it will go well below MOA. I tried it at 330yards, and got one group of 4.36", and another of 1.99". I then proceeded to hit a 8X8" steel gong with all of my last 4 shots. Velocity of this load is a chrony'd 2645 fps, and it is hitting just above point of aim at 330 yards.

    Should I try a diff. powder, or seating depth? Looking for some help to shrink these groups.

    [ 06-23-2003: Message edited by: todbartell ]
     
  2. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    What kind of load development have you done with that powder yet, or have you just worked with a load or two using it so far?

    Also, how long do you wait and let the bbl cool between shots when testing accuracy of your loads with that light weight barrel?

    I was going to get the 260 for my daughter, got the M7 in 243 instead, figured for her, it would shoot the lighter bullets and heavy enough ones too.
     
  3. RiverRat

    RiverRat Well-Known Member

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    Try RL-19 with a Federal 210 M primer. If you have a new edition of the Sierra Manual use that for reference. Also the Nosler manaul lists RL-19 as the most accurate powder they tested with the 120 gr. BT and the 125 Partition. Try the 120 MK at .003 to .005 off the lands. In my rifle it is too long to work through the magazine but shoots in the .3's.

    I just developed a load for another shooter to hunt deer with using the 120 Sierra Pro Hunter. It shot very well at 2912 avg. fps. from his 23" barrel using RL-19. I have also used IMR 4064 with this bullet. It's not quite as accurate as RL-19 but still sub MOA the velocity averages 2993 fps out my 24" tube.

    Currently I am working on a load for my 260 long range rifle using the Lapua 123 gr. Scenar. (B.C. of .547) I am using RL-19 with it as well. At 46.9 gr. it is averageing 2951 fps with std. dev. consistently in the single digits. Still tweaking bullet seating depth as it is double grouping right now in the mid .5's. Hope this helps some. Welcome aboard, glad to see you made it over from Accurate Reloading. There is a lot great information available on this site, from very knowledgeable shooters! Enjoy your stay!
     
  4. todbartell

    todbartell Member

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    I have used this RL15 powder in my 260 Rem for 100 gr. bullets. With the 100 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet, I could get pretty good groups, 1" or less. This is the first time I've tried it with a 120 gr. bullet.

    Yes, my barrel is quite slender. I let it get almost cool, just slightly warm to the touch. I fire 3 shots within 2 minutes for my group. But it is often my first or second shot that is off.

    I have tried RL19 with this bullet last summer. Seated .030" off the lands, I got a 5 shot group of 1.5". CCI BR-2 primers is what I used. I have since run out of RL19. Just sort of using up what powders I got left.

    So, this morning, I loaded up 20 more MatchKings. I have a little Winchester WXR left, the only slow burner I got other than 7828. 49.5 grs. gave me 2909 fps avg. for 10 shots. ES was 57 fps, AD was 14 fps. Bullet was seated .030" off the lands. Accuracy was no better than my previous RL15 load. [​IMG]

    My first three groups of 3 shots went into 2.17", 1.55", & 1.13". In all three, there would be 2 holes within .8", then a flyer. But not always would the 3rd shot spoil the group. [​IMG] I then backed off again to 335 yards, tried two more groups. First one went into 2.92" (not bad), second was a wide 6.38". Used my last 4 shots to blast 4 2L Coke bottles filled with water. 3 out of the 4 were knocked down. Upon inspection, I hit all 3, dead center. Can't believe that! The one that didn't fall was hit high, a little below the neck. Just lost the water up to the hole. Hey, about the holes in the bottles. They all had 26 cal entrance, and 2-3" vertical splits in the back. Not much expansion, even when hitting at almost 2200 fps. [​IMG]

    I'm almost out of these 120 gr. MK's. I got like 18 or so. Any suggestions? Here are the powders I got - RL15, Varget, H4895, WXR, and IMR 7828. What about seating depth?

    Looking to salvage a decent load with this last stab at the box of MK's. [​IMG]

    P.S., the wind was very light tonight, and I also did set my AO for the range I am shooting at.

    [ 06-24-2003: Message edited by: todbartell ]
     
  5. RiverRat

    RiverRat Well-Known Member

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    Kind of surprised that RL-19 didn't work too well with the 120 MK. I know of two other rifles besides mine that likes that powder bullet combination. I have looked in the 5th edition of the Sierra manual, and of the powders you have Varget is the only other powder that you haven't tried that they list loads for with the 120 MK.

    120 Match King
    Rem. Brass
    Rem. 9 1/2 primer
    Varget starting load: 34.0 gr.= 2600 fps
    Varget maximum load: 40.4 gr.= 2900 fps

    Hope this helps, you might try different seating depth changes as well. Sierra tech support has told me that the 120 MK doesn't mind jumping to the rifling so you might try that as well. If not you might try the 123 gr. Laupa Scenar. It has a lot better B.C. than the Sierra.
     
  6. todbartell

    todbartell Member

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    Actually, that RL19 load was better than I'm doing now. That was 5 shots with RL19 that are going as tight as my 3 shot groups now. [​IMG]

    I've shot the 120 gr. MK with Varget, but didn't record the group size, only the speed. So I will try it. I've been shooting lately with the laminate stock, but I will switch to my lightweight fiberglass stock, see if that helps. It was supposed to be off to get painted, but I will wait a bit longer now. It has showed to be an accurate platform for my 260 before, but my laminate has too. The laminate weighs 17 ozs. more, and I've found it is much more stable to shoot from the bench. But, I'll hunker down and try the fiberglass.

    Thanks for the load data. I will load some up with Varget tommorow. Maybe try them seated .020" off. I remember getting 2765 fps with 39.5 grs. last winter, but the accuracy of the load is forgotten.

    I did notice some wind drift with the 120 gr. MK when the wind was blowing at 335 yards. BC is .409. Lapua 123 gr. is like .547, that is some difference!

    I'll report back with the Varget results by tommorow hopefully.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    todbartell,
    This seems ironic to me that you would ask advise about things that "require zero to little talent" if my memory serves me right. [​IMG]
    I would try either of the 4350 powders in that caliber. About .003 off. to start. Win. or 210 prim. Just a suggestion.
     
  8. Holmes

    Holmes Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!

    Excellent recall [​IMG]
     
  9. todbartell

    todbartell Member

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    LOL [​IMG] Ahh, the thing about the young girl who smoked a fawn at 750 yards, when she couldn't remove the safety? Yes, like I said, no talent. [​IMG]

    I loaded up the last of my MatchKings today, and tried them tonight with my rifle wearing the diff. stock.

    I went with H4895 and Varget.

    Varget went alright at 100 yards, 1.36". H4895 went better, 1.32" (but 2 were in .11"). I backed off to 335 yards.

    My first 335 yard group with H4895 went into 1.83", which I thought was damn good. My second group went into a tiny 0.63" [​IMG] By far the smallest group I've fired past 100 yards. Almost as small of a group that this factory tube has shot at any range! [​IMG] I used the last of my Varget loads to ring the gong 6 outta 6 times.

    Just when I find a sweet load, I'm all outta MatchKings! [​IMG]

    [ 06-26-2003: Message edited by: todbartell ]
     
  10. todbartell

    todbartell Member

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    338-378 ,

    I'm not anti-long range hunting. It just seemed like it pretty easy with the tripod bench set-up. And the custom guns and scopes, precision handloads, etc. It really takes alot of the human element out of it. If I was shooting a blue printed action, Hart barrel, McMillian stocked rifle that weighs 15 lbs+, I might not of been searching for help with MatchKings. But I'm not. I'm shooting a factory rifle. Pencil thin factory tube. "Cheap" Bushnell scope. Factory trigger, adjusted, but not a Shilen of Timney, etc. No fancy benchrest, just sand bags. The rifle weighs 5 lbs., 13 ozs. w/o scope & rings. That is pretty hard to hold steady, I'm sure you'd agree. I wish I could have the equipment alot of you guys have. But I guess I will make do with what I got.
     
  11. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Tod

    "It really takes alot of the human element out of it." ??????


    First----This is a "Longrange hunting" forum.

    Second---Your comment about "no talent" and taking the "human element" out of it has no place here.

    To explain further.
    The talent was in preperation of the hunt long before that trigger was pulled.
    It takes years to understand and apply the longrange hunting ideas of killing game.
    Many of us have hunted this way for years and understand how it's done. We also have spent large sums of money to stay up with the sport and can kill the game very cleanly at ranges people think and argue,is impossible.

    We all have those factory, pencil thin barrel guns laying around and know what the differance is of accuracy potential between a good custom setup. We carry those factory jobs when we want to take a walk and get some exercise and know that the range will probably not be over 300 yards, sometimes it is a tad further though.

    As per the girl not knowing the safety---She was instructed how to keep the cross hair on the animal, don't bump the bench or move the rifle, how to squeeze the trigger properly, don't take her eye out of the scope in case the animal ran at all and many more items before she ever was allowed near that rifle.
    The good thing about it was, the safety was "on".

    These fellows are making a video to show and help other longrange hunters in the "art" of LR hunting. I feel they have done that and anyone who has not seen the video should if they are an interested LR hunter in the making.

    If you keep watching this forum, you will see many excellent comments concerning the Longrange way and equipment to use.
    This is the way most of us hunt and enjoy and it's NOT as easy as one may think.
    The ballistic preperation alone is something most people don't even think about who have never done it.
    Knowing your equipment at the different ranges is a must and a good understanding of bullet potential is extremely important.

    For most of us who started with those factory pencil thin barrels and killed many head of game with them when the shots were close, find that those days were easier then the longrange way. It's MUCH harder placing a bullet on game from 750 to 2000 yards then it is at 100 to 300 with a factory rifle.

    Been there done that. [​IMG]

    Later
    DC

    [ 06-26-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    todbartell,
    Ya know todbartell you may think that seeing a 10 year old girl take her first deer at long range is "disgusting" but I'll tell you something partner I wouldn't have exchanged that moment for all the tea in China. You need to learn a little humility.
    Maybe you'll understand someday if someone starts barkin about YOUR little girl.
    Oh yeah and tod, would it make ya feel better if I told ya we're killin shit out past 500yrds with H&R(youth model) single shots topped with 4x (tasco) scopes. Total Price: $235.00. total weight 6lbs.

    [ 06-26-2003: Message edited by: 338-378 ]
     
  13. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Todbartell

    Your mountain rifle is not going to routinely group under 1" unless it is an exceptional gun, (having had several). However, they tend to tighten up a bit with bedding rcvr and 1st 2" of barrel and taking the pressure point out of the front.

    Assume you are talking hunting deer size game, so I would pick a good hunting bullet in the 120 range such as a ballistic tip or partition and working on one load with a temperature insensitive powder. Sounds like you already have a great hunting load, so what are you realistically trying to achieve. You are never going to get that gun to .5" and you are never going to shoot it at 1000 and that has nothing to do with you, just the guns capabilities in its present chamber and barrel configuration.

    You have a very good walk around hunting rifle that will never give match grade accuracy as that is not what it was designed for. Do not waste time and money trying to make it do that. Pick one very good hunting bullet that will consistently give good hunting and you already have it.

    That means at 400 yards you are still into a 4-6" groups which is great for a deer sized animal if you do your part.

    BH