Matching 4 rifles to the same load ?

[HarryN]

I would like to get some opinions about the feasibility of a project.

- .416 weatherby
- Good quality actions and barrels (not picked yet)
- 1 or 2 bullet types and weights ( example GSC SP or HV bullets)
- Hand loaded ammo
- 4 rifles built at the same time

Is would be very convenient if all 4 of them could use the same exact ammo ( COAL, etc.) and achieve 1/2 MOA or better results at 200 - 300 meters. It does not matter so much if they have the same velocity / point of aim, as much as it does that they could all shoot tight groups.

Of course it would be amazing if this could work at 500 meters or more, but I don't even know if 300 meters is feasible.

The GSC web site talks about drive band bullet group size being adjusted primarily by changing COAL, so obviously there is a lot of sensitivity in that section.

Since I live in CA, copper bullets are pretty much a requirement, and most of those are drive band or similar.

Any suggestions / opinions / experience ?

Thanks

 

[FearNoWind]

Harry, there are really too many variables to make a rationally sensible judgement as to whether or not your idea will work. On a good day, with a bit of luck, you may find the load that works. It is, after all, how factory ammo is produced but even then their claims for accuracy are often subject to challenge.
Recently, 3 of us built identical rifles (lock, stock and barrel) and all shoot very well with the same load. But each of them has its favorite for those .25 MOA groups we like to see. All will shoot within 1MOA with the same load but their range of powder charge and bullet seating depth varies considerably when we go after the tighter groups.
In your place, I'd set up a load that works well in just one rifle. Fine tune it until it shoots bug holes, then try it in the others.
Let us know how it comes out.

 

[J E Custom]

I would like to get some opinions about the feasibility of a project.

- .416 weatherby
- Good quality actions and barrels (not picked yet)
- 1 or 2 bullet types and weights ( example GSC SP or HV bullets)
- Hand loaded ammo
- 4 rifles built at the same time

Is would be very convenient if all 4 of them could use the same exact ammo ( COAL, etc.) and achieve 1/2 MOA or better results at 200 - 300 meters. It does not matter so much if they have the same velocity / point of aim, as much as it does that they could all shoot tight groups.

Of course it would be amazing if this could work at 500 meters or more, but I don't even know if 300 meters is feasible.

The GSC web site talks about drive band bullet group size being adjusted primarily by changing COAL, so obviously there is a lot of sensitivity in that section.

Since I live in CA, copper bullets are pretty much a requirement, and most of those are drive band or similar.

Any suggestions / opinions / experience ?

Thanks

It is very possible to build two rifles that have the same exact chamber and barrel brand that will shoot the same ammo well.

I have never tried 4 rifles but I would think if you chose the same barrel maker, the same contour
and the same length that they would be very close if a good Smith used the same reamer and set the head space exactly the same the odds would be very good that they could shoot the same ammo well. (all barrels are a little different even if they are the same in every way).

If you don't do anything tricky and stay with SAMME specifications, you will have the luxury of being able to change the COAL slightly to achieve close to the same performance and size and load should be near the same.

The one plus to your needs/wants is that the big bores (416 and 458s) are very forgiving. SDs
are normally lower with the big bullets and they will normally shoot well under 1 MOA and if set
up correctly they can be phenomenal. (A custom built 416 shot my best group ever of .034 3 shot@
100 yards with a 400 grain bullet).

Within reason, with the right load, all that should be necessary for them to have the same POI
is a slight site adjustment difference for each one.

Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.

J E CUSTOM

 

[HarryN]

Thank you for the great feedback.

That is quite a grouping - When I get this far, I will have to bring it around for you to show me how it's done.

Of course in projects like this it is always a combination of logistics, technology, and cash flow, so it will take a while.

Harry

 

[BountyHunter]

Truthfully I do not think you stand a snowballs chance in hades of doing that without going thru 40 barrels snd 40k trying if ever sucessful to get four 416s to shoot .5 moa at 300 much less at 500.
Just too many variables and the question is why in the first place.

I have had two identical barrels made from the same length of stock and the would not shoot the same! Both were exactly identical, both hand lapped to exactly same internal dimensions and chambered by a top BR gunsmith in BR quality actions.

416s should not be in tight BR actions for obvious reasons and i would not want to use a 416 built like that on any animal that needed a 416! Your accuracy goal is a very tight for day in day out accuracy and is extremely optimistic to say the least. One great group does not mean you have a .5 moa gun.

My bet is you will have a difficult time getting one gun to do that 70% of the time but try that before you waste a lot of money.

 

[HarryN]

Those are all very good points and well worth consideration for the project approach. I appreciate the inputs.

The truth is that I can't hit worth a nickel from a free standing position at 200 yards (and my 100 yard free standing groups aren't anything to brag about either), I am just trying to make it that the probability for a miss is the shooter and not the rifle.

There certainly is something to be said about making a rifle too tight for the typical .416 Weatherby application. This forum sort of makes it difficult to think in other concepts sometimes.

Interestingly though, Weatherby sells off the shelf rifles that claim similar capability over quite a range of calibers, including dangerous game ones. It could be that they do some sorting to find the "range certified ones" vs. the "standard version". That is a luxury I don't have.

I am still collecting information and budget, so this will take some time.

 

[J E Custom]

Those are all very good points and well worth consideration for the project approach. I appreciate the inputs.

The truth is that I can't hit worth a nickel from a free standing position at 200 yards (and my 100 yard free standing groups aren't anything to brag about either), I am just trying to make it that the probability for a miss is the shooter and not the rifle.

There certainly is something to be said about making a rifle too tight for the typical .416 Weatherby application. This forum sort of makes it difficult to think in other concepts sometimes.

Interestingly though, Weatherby sells off the shelf rifles that claim similar capability over quite a range of calibers, including dangerous game ones. It could be that they do some sorting to find the "range certified ones" vs. the "standard version". That is a luxury I don't have.

I am still collecting information and budget, so this will take some time.

One thing for sure to plan on is a premium barrel and premium bullets.

When I built mine the barrel maker thought I was crazy for selecting his best quality barrel.
When I explained that it was a wildcat and un-proven and I wanted to eliminate any reason
for inaccuracy except me, he understood (But he still disagreed saying that the big bores are normally for close range and accuracy is not much of a concern.

I don't care how big the bore is, I just want them to shoot less than 1/2 MOA if possible.

I have shot mine to 500 yards and has the trajectory of a 270 Win and it is still a hammer (Less than 3" groups, and after I install one of my brakes it should be better because of less recoil) Recoil is just above 60 ft/lbs without a brake and 23.3 ft/lbs with a tuned Assassin so that should help my shooting considerably.

The point is, get the best barrel and do good gun smithing and you should have a chance.

If you expect or require less, you will end up with less.

J E CUSTOM