Marine snipers dump .308 Win, adopt .300 Win Mag

[jski]

It appears the Marine Corps has adopted the .300 Win Mag for their sniper teams.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...rines-are-finally-getting-a-new-sniper-rifle/

So let me get this straight, just when the SEALs are dumping the .300 Win Mag, the Marines are adopting it? From what I gather, the SEALs are leaning toward the .300 Norma Mag.

 

[MudRunner2005]

It's all a politics game, and it's not their money to waste...It's our tax money at work.

They've stuck with the anemic 5.56x45mm for an infantry cartridge since the 1960's (no thanks to NATO), but they've had over 8 different sniper cartridges (.308 Win, .30-06 Sprg., .300WM, .300 Norma, .338 Lapua, .408 Cheytac, .416 Barrett, .50 BMG) to increase effectiveness. While the frontline guys are being shot at with 5.45x39, 7.62x39, and 7.62x54R. Personally, I think the 5.56 should be swapped out for 6.5 Grendel, but that will never happen. Hell, I've even drawn-up quite a few wildcats that would increase our infantry rifle effectiveness out to 800+ meters, if need-be. But they would never go for that.

Sorry for the semi-rant, but I just think it's ridiculous that we abide by the horrendous Geneva Convention and NATO-approved cartridges that end up getting our soldiers killed and injured, while the enemy doesn't, nor do they give a rat's *** to ever abide by either. A wise man (General Jim Mattis) once said, "If you ever find yourself in a fair fight...Your tactics suck." Another one once said, "There is no such thing as a fair fight."

 

[just country]

morning, mudrunner is right. the assembled sniper rifles will
b passed down for use in another military service. I like
the 260 rem. based on the .308 case. just me

 

[just country]

morning, Gbot Tum

morning, mudrunner is right. the assembled sniper rifles will
b passed down for use in another military service. I like
the 260 rem. based on the .308 case. just me

 

[magtech83]

At least passing the old rifle down is a cost savings vs making them a whole new weapon caliber/support system. If that's not a positive then I need more coffee.

 

[762x51]

i think i read somewhere it was going to be on the AR platform as well? i dont remember

EDIT - nevermind, i guess i misunderstood the last article i read....it was on yahoo. what are the chances that the CMP gets them and we get a chance to buy the old m40's?!?!?!?!?!

 

[jski]

I wonder if the .300 Win Mag as a sniper round is still optimal?

 

[dougduey]

Did you see the price tag on the rifles for the Marines?!!? 4.3 million for 346 rifles. That's over $12K per rifle!!
I'm surprised they don't go to a 7mm for a sniper round. It will buck the wind better than the 30 cal bullets, and will carry plenty of down range energy at the distances they are looking for. A 7 STW or 28 Nosler would fit that bill nicely. Plus, worse case for a custom rifle with NF ATACR on top would be half of the cost they are going to pay for each rifle.

 

[surgeon260]

28 Nosler with one of the new SMKs (183 or 197) would be a huge step up in ballistics over a 300WM, but barrel life would be very short, especially with the sustained rates of fire encountered during training.

 

[MudRunner2005]

28 Nosler with one of the new SMKs (183 or 197) would be a huge step up in ballistics over a 300WM, but barrel life would be very short, especially with the sustained rates of fire encountered during training.

Actually, barrel life wouldn't be that different. Maybe a few hundred shots, at most. And also, since when does the government care about cost? They're already grossly overpaying @ $12,000 per rifle, on OUR dime... I wonder if they're going to offer to pay $4,000 to the manufacturer have each one rebarreled when they need it, or will they just pay $12,000 for a new one, and scrap the old $12,000 rifles?

 

[surgeon260]

More powder, smaller bore, there will definitely be a difference. I can't imagine a 28 Nosler barrel used in a training or combat environment lasting more than 4-500 rounds tops.

My point wasn't so much about cost but rather rifle "down time." I work in DoD contracting (not gun related) and those contracts typically have specific RAM requirements (Reliability, Accessibility, Maintainability). It is definitely something they think about.

 

[MudRunner2005]

More powder, smaller bore, there will definitely be a difference. I can't imagine a 28 Nosler barrel used in a training or combat environment lasting more than 4-500 rounds tops.

My point wasn't so much about cost but rather rifle "down time." I work in DoD contracting (not gun related) and those contracts typically have specific RAM requirements (Reliability, Accessibility, Maintainability). It is definitely something they think about.

I'm well aware of the mechanics of how bore diameter to powder capacity efficiency works to determine barrel life. It's also about finding a proper median. The .28 Nosler has around 1,200-1,500 round life-span in civilian hands, possibly more if you never really shoot more than 3 rounds before letting it cool down completely. I'd say it would probably have around 800-1,000 round barrel life within spec accuracy regs in a training or combat setting. Running a .300WM just as fast and hot will land it maybe 100-150 rounds better barrel life...Hardly what I'd consider advantageous given the better ballistics and equal or better energy of a 195 grain 7mm bullet. But that's personal opinion. We all know the government will never step away from the .30 caliber rifles, just because...Even if something is better. The .375 & .408 Cheytac don't have the best barrel life either, but that doesn't stop them from using them as well...

There's a reason the .308 Win is still used as a trainer rifle for the military... You can run it hot, and the barrels will still last 3,000-5,000 rounds. In combat, melting **** down happens...It's a known potential hazard. Why else do you think they no longer worry about having 3 or 5 shot burst, and all the M4's are full-auto...Barrels are cheap and expendable items, and they have armorers on-location if/when something needs fixing or replacing.

 

[Canhunter35]

IMO
As taxpayers we have the right to question our respective military's spending
Without military experience I don't think any of know what our military's should use.

Besides I heard NATO considered adopting the 6.5 creedmoor but worried it would fall into enemy hands, dismissed the idea.

 

[surgeon260]

Thanks for the data MudRunner. I will be thrilled if my 28 barrel lasts 1500 rounds!

I competed with a 7RM for a couple years and went through three barrels (all medium palma contour) - all were TOAST after less than 1000 rounds. And that was burning 17 fewer grains per shot than my 28. Hence my incredulity that a combat-oriented 28 Nosler will match or beat that barrel life. But if your experience says it is possible, fantastic.