Major copper fouling?

keithcandler

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Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
650
So, are you cleaning your rifles a lot more since you got the bore scope? Did you see any difference in your targets--that would tell you for sure whether the extra angst has been worth it. If your groups improved then it is all good. If they actually got worse then you are probably ready to ask yourself a similar question to "What about Bob?"

Jon, Clean rifles do not shoot worse. I Have had Savages whose barrels looked like a Sewer pipe. These rifles would shoot like this:

7 Mag- Model 116 would shoot 3/8" groups for 9 rounds from a clean barrel. Then go to 3/4" for about 9 shots, then 1.5"-2" for around the next 40 shots, then 3" from there on.

30/06, 270's would shoot around 3/4", then go to 1.5-1.750" groups

Some BAR's and 7400's were the same in 30/06 and 270.

I keep hearing about those barrels that shoot better after 20-40 rounds but no one in my immediate family has one, nor any of my shooting buddies and I have been shooting centerfires since 1967. I also shot a lot of benchrest comp and other disciplines.

We chalked up this Shooting better after 20-40 rounds to a guy that settles down and starts shooting better.

Rule of thumb is, if you want the best accuracy out of your rifle, then keep it clean. You do not know it is clean unless you own a bore scope. My hunting partner and I shot 20K rounds a year shooting p dogs, ground squirrels, and chucks. We did not own a bore scope for a while. As soon as we did get a medical device that we used as a bore scope, we learned certain powders are harder on barrels. We also learned how carbon builds up in front of the throat. We were shooting at times 1100-1200 rounds of centerfire a day on p. dog towns. We learned how to keep the barrels performing for the five gallon bucked of ammo we were going to shoot up per barrel on that trip....223, 22/250, 243, and 243 AI.
 

blueprairiedog

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Feb 9, 2012
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132
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suffolk va.
I use a borescope. Picked up one of the 50.00 Teslong models on Amazon. Plugs into my cell phone and is a awesome tool for cleaning. Every shooter should have one JUST for cleaning rifles
Don’t get butter bean started on the bore scope thing again but I couldn’t agree more
 

blueprairiedog

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I have spent hours with just about everything on the market except the foam products and the muzzle will still have some copper drives me nuts
 

Jon Bischof

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Oct 25, 2002
Messages
308
Location
Paragould, AR
Keith, if I could be serious for a moment, I actually do agree with you, Keith. Clean rifles do shoot better. Most of my post in this thread have been facetious. I am a fanatical rifle cleaner. Maybe not to the extreme of Bob but still I like to clean my rifle after I shoot it every time.
I have a CZ 452 rimfire that takes about 10 shots after you clean it for it to settle back into its normal point of impact. But like you I've never experienced that problem with a centerfire.
The reason I interjected humor into this thread was that many are type "A" personalities when it comes to cleaning their rifles. And buying a borescope May exacerbate their personality trait. I do everything I can to squeeze more accuracy out of every rifle I own so it can become a bit of a rabbit hole to some if they follow it down too far. I'm not truly one who thinks careful proper cleaning is a bad thing.
The copper streaks in the bore of the original posters photos are truly terrible.

Jon, Clean rifles do not shoot worse. I Have had Savages whose barrels looked like a Sewer pipe. These rifles would shoot like this:

7 Mag- Model 116 would shoot 3/8" groups for 9 rounds from a clean barrel. Then go to 3/4" for about 9 shots, then 1.5"-2" for around the next 40 shots, then 3" from there on.

30/06, 270's would shoot around 3/4", then go to 1.5-1.750" groups

Some BAR's and 7400's were the same in 30/06 and 270.

I keep hearing about those barrels that shoot better after 20-40 rounds but no one in my immediate family has one, nor any of my shooting buddies and I have been shooting centerfires since 1967. I also shot a lot of benchrest comp and other disciplines.

We chalked up this Shooting better after 20-40 rounds to a guy that settles down and starts shooting better.

Rule of thumb is, if you want the best accuracy out of your rifle, then keep it clean. You do not know it is clean unless you own a bore scope. My hunting partner and I shot 20K rounds a year shooting p dogs, ground squirrels, and chucks. We did not own a bore scope for a while. As soon as we did get a medical device that we used as a bore scope, we learned certain powders are harder on barrels. We also learned how carbon builds up in front of the throat. We were shooting at times 1100-1200 rounds of centerfire a day on p. dog towns. We learned how to keep the barrels performing for the five gallon bucked of ammo we were going to shoot up per barrel on that trip....223, 22/250, 243, and 243 AI.
Jon, Clean rifles do not shoot worse. I Have had Savages whose barrels looked like a Sewer pipe. These rifles would shoot like this:

7 Mag- Model 116 would shoot 3/8" groups for 9 rounds from a clean barrel. Then go to 3/4" for about 9 shots, then 1.5"-2" for around the next 40 shots, then 3" from there on.

30/06, 270's would shoot around 3/4", then go to 1.5-1.750" groups

Some BAR's and 7400's were the same in 30/06 and 270.

I keep hearing about those barrels that shoot better after 20-40 rounds but no one in my immediate family has one, nor any of my shooting buddies and I have been shooting centerfires since 1967. I also shot a lot of benchrest comp and other disciplines.

We chalked up this Shooting better after 20-40 rounds to a guy that settles down and starts shooting better.

Rule of thumb is, if you want the best accuracy out of your rifle, then keep it clean. You do not know it is clean unless you own a bore scope. My hunting partner and I shot 20K rounds a year shooting p dogs, ground squirrels, and chucks. We did not own a bore scope for a while. As soon as we did get a medical device that we used as a bore scope, we learned certain powders are harder on barrels. We also learned how carbon builds up in front of the throat. We were shooting at times 1100-1200 rounds of centerfire a day on p. dog towns. We learned how to keep the barrels performing for the five gallon bucked of ammo we were going to shoot up per barrel on that trip....223, 22/250, 243, and 243 AI.
 

shooter221

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
11
Location
Jax
Keith, if I could be serious for a moment, I actually do agree with you, Keith. Clean rifles do shoot better. Most of my post in this thread have been facetious. I am a fanatical rifle cleaner. Maybe not to the extreme of Bob but still I like to clean my rifle after I shoot it every time.
I have a CZ 452 rimfire that takes about 10 shots after you clean it for it to settle back into its normal point of impact. But like you I've never experienced that problem with a centerfire.
The reason I interjected humor into this thread was that many are type "A" personalities when it comes to cleaning their rifles. And buying a borescope May exacerbate their personality trait. I do everything I can to squeeze more accuracy out of every rifle I own so it can become a bit of a rabbit hole to some if they follow it down too far. I'm not truly one who thinks careful proper cleaning is a bad thing.
The copper streaks in the bore of the original posters photos are truly terrible.
I have copper cu2 cleaner and hoppes traditional cleaner, what steps do you recommend to get rid of those copper streaks?
 

blueprairiedog

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Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
132
Location
suffolk va.
I bought it new in 95 and didn’t have the internet to entertain me while I cleaned my guns but now I can go on line and see what other people do or try and see what works and what doesn’t but I try to take care of what I spend my hard earned money on
 

jdyoung

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Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
336
Location
Ironman Country
I wish Outers would bring back the Foul Out III, or at least make the Cop Out solution available. I still have part of a gallon remaining so I'm not without that as a last resort. But it sure works !
I didn't have a bore scope then, and after cleaning my 7mm Wby, I took it to Hart's for inspection. They had a bore scope. I know that at that time the recently purchased 7 Wby had an immense amount of copper build up in the throat. Anyway, after using the Foul Out III, and having young Bob look , it was pronounced "immaculately clean" .
Now that I have a bore scope, I clean with foam cleaners, (Lately I've used Wipe Out and like it.) , then scan with the bore scope and if I find a real imbedded spot ,( which is rare), fire up the Foul Out III. Then if I wanna' buff lands n grooves I smear a glob of JB Bore Brite on a patch, fold it over a bit to embed the JB's in the cloth and push it through with an undersize jag. Doesn't take many passes.
 

tnek13

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Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
144
Location
NW Indiana
I bought a 308 Savage Stealth when they first came out. It did the same thing your rifle does. It had been broken in per the previously posted procedure and still coppered up after about 20 or 30 rounds. So I ordered a Shilen Select Match barrel and it does not copper up anymore. As a side note while I waited for the new barrel I kept shooting the savage and at about the 500 round count it settled down.
 

corsteve

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Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Messages
106
Location
oregon
i use excellater an wipe out no problems on 6.5 300 prc ridgline also on a proof barrel had a custom barrel on a 300wby cp donnely barrel 1 patch per round for 5 shots then clean gyn is 30 tears old still shoots 5/8 inch groups
 

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