Magic Trajectories

Dave King

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2001
While reading on some other boards I came across two posts and folks that seem to agree with some pretty amazing trajectories.

One fella thought that his 7mm STW would cross the line of sight (Near Zero) at 100 yards and be 2.5 inches high at 250 yards and a little low at 300.

Another fella thought that his 'fast' 25-06 with the 117 grain bullet would be sighted at 100 and 200 yards, folks agreed with him! Were not talking Point Blank range here but actually POA = POI.

Do you think there are a lot of these folks and myths around.

I know that if a person has a VERY tall scope mounting system the near zero can move out to the 100 yard range but for 1.5 inch systems I believe this is fairly difficult.
not that I am an expert on any of this stuff but...
If you goto any other forums or chat places you would be amazed at what you hear ( see )
goto the it is a general hunting type forum..
Guys on there swear that the 7mm and really "fast guns have the same zero at 100,200,300 because they are "flat" shooters..and that the bullet doesn't drop or is effected by wind. there was another guy that stated the best gun for 1000yards is the ( get this ) 45-70 because of how "big" the bullet is...
another guy said that he shoots the 35 rem. over the 30-30 in brush because the bullet is heavier and doesn't get deflected if he hits tree branches..
It is truly astounding the ideas and "factual info." alot of people have...
because I hunt in PA for the deer season.. ( alot of the guys who said this were actually from pa ) I kinda wonder how safe it is.... being that PA has the greatest amount of deer hunters!!!.. I grew up in PA and I am half embarrased by some of those comments.
It is kinda like you laugh at them at first but then you realize that these people really believe that stuff...

I don't think it is myths but simple ignorance. I read many forums. There are quite a few discussions where uninformed opinion is given as fact. Ballistic trajectories are not a mystery and there are a wealth of decent programs available that can resolve most questions, especially under 1000 yds.

On another forum I was baiting into a discussion by a forum leader who gave obviously incorrect analysis on terminal performance only to find out later that he was doing it specifically to enliven the discussion. I don't respond to his queries any more.
Hello Dave & Ric

I really hate to keep posting here because I don't want to seem like I am "Hogging" up the forum.

I simply have witnessed or have owned many pieces of equipment over the years that, I feel is helpful to the new shooters who are coming on the scene and attempting Longrange shooting/hunting.

If what I have learned over the years will help just one shooter, then I will continue to post here. Please excuse me if I seem to make comments in several places, but the. areas of comments I have done and/or witnessed over the years.

I'm VERY glad we have this forum to respond to and to have it controled away from the naysayers.

In truth, most shooters/hunters have NO idea what their rifles are capable of.
They are normally the 3 day a year hunter who carries his 30/30,35 Remington, 30/06 and 270 into the woods and thinks there is nothing better to hunt with.

I have found that, you will NEVER educate some of these people because they are happy with the way they hunt and always have.

As you know Ric, growing up in PA that Longrange hunting began in the North Central area of that State.
It began in the Pine Creek area (which is just over the mountain from Driftwood where I have a home) and spread to my area (Cameron County) very rapidly. These two areas of PA are still the Longrange hunters paradise. Tall steep mountains where you can shoot from one to another. If you have been to the area, you know exactly what I am saying.

I think that education is our best consideration for those who want to know more about our sport. Most people/hunters, who are set in their ways, do not want to change and don't believe what we do anyway and try to argue that it can't be done. These are the types that we must just walk away from and try to educate within our own ranks. Live and let live I have always advocated.

With the major arms companies producing longrange rifles right off the shelf, we as longrange shooters/hunters have the obligation to help anyone who wants to know about our sport.

There has NEVER been a hunting accident caused by a longrange hunter and the game commission in every State we hunt in know this. We MUST keep it this way and stress Safety always.

We have found that, the bush hunter (short range) knows NOTHING about LR weapons what so ever and will give nonfactual remarks, as you have found in other forums.

I wish you could have seen the crowd we had a few years ago in Colorado. If I would have charged $5.00 for every visiter we had, I could have paid for my trip. Just from the safety standpoint, we have been WELL accepted in our area of Colorado, especially by the game commission.

As mentioned, my goal is safety in the sport. We do not shoot if we see Orange on the other mountain within 1000 yards of our intended target.

As far as what others post on other forums,I can only say, these hunters are certainly not Longrange hunters and probably will never be. When I hear that a 45/70 is the best LR rifle, I know that poster knows NOTHING about what we do.

One must disregard what some say because most hunters have been short range hunting so long that they have no plans of changing. They would NEVER go to the expense or be allowed to by their wife, to do it correctly anyway.

There is NO expense limit to doing the LR game correctly and safely as far as I'm concerned. Buy the BEST equipment you can possibly afford that will last you for years if taken care of correctly.

Well I have rambled on enough here and just wanted to add my 2 cents worth.

In summery, you know what a person knows or what he has done just by what he says.

Good luck to you and good shooting always.
Shoot straight and stay SAFE.

Darryl Cassel

PS--I see Warren came in on this one and I'm glad to see him here. He is VERY knowledgeable and can help out in many areas of expertise. Hello Warren, how's the testing on the "Big Boy" coming along???

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]

Good to have you back! I believe I recall that 'bait' post, it got to be a pretty heated thread.


Keep on posting, I don't ever consider your post as hogging anything, they're very informative.

I wish many more like you would freely give their opinions as I Imagine most of yours have come from the expierience of actually doing it.
I'm sure there are many others here that can attest to actuall field results and any one of you have have been at this for a while have a situation or a similar situation for nearly any question asked in these types of forums...
As you guys get to know me and I'm sure DC can attest to this I ask ALOT of questions and maybe some of the same questions in many different ways. As you mentioned DC this sport isn't exactly cheap especially if you are starting out and you realize there are alot of "have to have" and highly recommended items, not to mention the invaluable time ( hours and days) spent behind the trigger, and the lbs. and lbs. of powder and the box after box of bullets. These things add up very quickly ( ask my wife she pays the CC bills )
I guess my point is DC and all of you guys who have the expierience to draw from don't ever appologize to me about hogging up space on this board..!!!!

It's funny though as I travel to the different cities marketing our guest ranch I tell people that I guide and there is an outfitter who leases our place, it is inevitable that guys will start talking guns and stuff.... so 50% f my marketing is talking about guns and hunting.. don't get me wrong I LOVE to do it but there is one person a day who says or starts the argument which is the best gun/cal. and then you really start to hear how misinformed some guys are. I understand that there is a STRONG tradition ( epsecially where I grew up ) that your father and grandfather are the pillars of the hunting tradition and are viewed as the "greek Gods" of information and stories. But now that I have spent time on this board and some others I beggan to realize how many "facts" are not even close to real.

wow where was I going with this????

oh well you get my point...

anyway... you guys who know what your doing keep posting all the info you have!!!!! and many many thanks.....
I was talking guns with a Gunny friend of mine. He seemed pretty knowledgeable about bullets, BCs etc. But he lost me when he insisted his 25-06 sighted at 200 yards was "dead on for elk out to 900 yards" After trying to explain that was impossible twice, I dropped the subject.
It is refreshing to find a forum where most everyone here knows what is what about guns and stuff. A lot of people I know, know that I am gunny, but for most of them unless they are sincere in knowing (most just don't care) I don't even try to get into the meat and potatoes kind of talk on ballistics,zeros and trajectories. It just goes right over most of their heads. I like reading the posts here where uncommon knowledge is common talk. Mr. Darrel Cassel please feel free to hog any place you want to I find your posts most refreshing and educating. 308
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