Long Range Rifles/Optics for Backpacking hunts

[HARPERC]

I totally agree that a 2 lb scope on a backpacking rifle sucks...

Just to clarify I'm slowly working up the weight in my pack, a little over 20 lbs currently.
I probably won't ever be in a position of a full pack again. I can "fluff the rifle a bit, and be OK, because of good friends, guides, and horses. Pre set camps also help. So my 2 cents should be taken in that context.

I'm still trying to make my 9 lb limit, my current stock is a little lighter, and it's not a heavy contour either. Weight can be shaved here and there depending on preference

 

[Timber338]

Thanks guys for the advice. I've still got some time to figure out which scope to hunt with this fall. Right now I've got the ATACR mounted on my 338 for load development. I'm waiting for some 300 Accubonds to come into stock so I'm kind of stuck waiting at the moment.

I was thinking that once I get my load proven and verified at long range with the ATACR, I am going to mount my Vortex PST and see how I am able to shoot at long range with such an inferior optic. That may change my mind as to the scope I decide to actually hunt with. I don't think I'll hunt with the PST, but will be an interesting test.

I have no doubt that the Swaro optics would be a solid choice for my rifle. You get both light weight and top end optics and performance. no compromise except for cost.

And based on cost, the Z5 really has my attention especially with the tip about a turret from Bruce/HighPowerOptics.

One thing that has me confused, is looking on swaro's website, I see the BRH reticle on the Z5, but not with the model that also has ballistic turrets. What am I missing here? Would I just buy a non-turret model with the BRH reticle and replace the cap with an elevation turret from HighPowerOptics?

 

[Timber338]

Just to clarify I'm slowly working up the weight in my pack, a little over 20 lbs currently.
I probably won't ever be in a position of a full pack again. I can "fluff the rifle a bit, and be OK, because of good friends, guides, and horses. Pre set camps also help. So my 2 cents should be taken in that context.

I'm still trying to make my 9 lb limit, my current stock is a little lighter, and it's not a heavy contour either. Weight can be shaved here and there depending on preference

Gotcha. My weight limit goal would be 10 lbs, and that's where a 25 ounce scope +~ 7 ounces for rings/base gets me there with an 8 lb bare rifle.

No doubt that a light rifle is more fun to carry than a heavy one. And if we're tired out from carrying too much gear and a rifle that is too heavy, then nothing else matters. I have an ultralight semi-custom 338-300 wsm that is a dream to carry and recoils like a mule on crack. I've killed a lot of elk with it but it is limited to medium range. I've upgraded to the RUM to extend my range and obviously more weight goes along with that. I am lucky that I am still very physically capable to carry a lot of weight. I might be limited in the brain department but I certainly have the brawn.

So at least right now I can suck up some extra weight in the rifle. But ... I'm still very interested in learning more about the Z5 and BRH reticle. I'm all for figuring out a light weight setup that still performs.

 

[Pdvdh]

And based on cost, the Z5 really has my attention especially with the tip about a turret from Bruce/HighPowerOptics.

One thing that has me confused, is looking on swaro's website, I see the BRH reticle on the Z5, but not with the model that also has ballistic turrets. What am I missing here? Would I just buy a non-turret model with the BRH reticle and replace the cap with an elevation turret from HighPowerOptics?

T338,
Yes, that's my understanding from their web site and from having read some forum posts from Bruce, as well as a couple of PMs. You want to buy their standard Z5 with the BRH or BRX reticle (Or possibly another reticle? These are the only two I researched). I decided the BRX reticle was too fine for my use, and went with the BRH. HighPowerOptics then removes the factory turret(s) and will install one of theirs. You have to ship your scope in to them. But, if you purchase the scope from them, I think they'll provide their aftermarket turrets at no additional cost, and the scope will be shipped with their turrets, if you request that at the time of ordering. At least that's my understanding. My scope was received as a gift, so I'll have to ship my scope in to Bruce.

You might PM Bruce? He was very helpful responding to my questions. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/pm/new/to-34084/

 

[bruce_ventura]

I think the Swaro Z6 has 65 MOA elevation, so you figure cut it in half (32 MOA) and add 10 MOA due to my mount, I should have ~42MOA of upward elevation, which should easily get me out to 1,000 yrds. For me, that is more than plenty.

I am probably going to get a custom turret made for it based on my specified ammo.....Swaro makes them for like $99.

Be aware that the BT knob allows a little less than one full rotation of the elevation knob - 46 clicks or 16.56 IPHY on that model Z6. If you remove the zero stop ring from inside the turret, the elevation range is 65 IPHY. But then you loose the zero stop...

Swarovski changed the design of their custom BT turret and it now costs more - $150 I think.

 

[bruce_ventura]

...And based on cost, the Z5 really has my attention especially with the tip about a turret from Bruce/HighPowerOptics.

One thing that has me confused, is looking on swaro's website, I see the BRH reticle on the Z5, but not with the model that also has ballistic turrets. What am I missing here? Would I just buy a non-turret model with the BRH reticle and replace the cap with an elevation turret from HighPowerOptics?

HighPowerOptics can only make the change to the Micrometer Style knob at our facility in California. Removing and installing the low-profile knob is a bit tricky and can damage the turret if not done properly. We developed the Micrometer Style knob with support from Swarovski and the upgrade does not affect the warranty in any way - as long as we install the knob.

HighPowerOptics is now a dealer for Custom Turret Systems and we can provide a custom ballistic turret label for the Micrometer Style knob. You design the label using the label builder software at Custom Turret Systems. We will include a coupon code for a free custom turret label when the Micrometer Style upgrade is ordered with the purchase of a Swarovski scope.

 

[ktgoodman]

I put the March Scope 2.5 x 25 by 42 mm on my custom long range hunting gun. I had a Brux #4 24 inch barrel with a 1/9 twist, break, and Kelbly Action on a Bell Carlson Stock. Jewel trigger at just over 1 lb. The scope weighs 1.4 pounds and is nice and compact. I got he diplex hunting reticle. total weight is a bit heavy 11.4 lbs. but it is a great shooting gun out over 1,000 yrds. Caliber is 7mm WSM pushing 180 gr. berger VLD at 2925, so max killing distance at 1800 fps is about 950 yards. Love to shoot it and reload for it. The March scopes are a bit spendy, but super nice glass and built as well as anything I looked at. Always spot on after coming back to Zero 100 moa vert. and horizontal adjustments.

 

[Engineering101]

I have to say I never understood having a light rifle for backpacking and such. I mean guys will join a gym so they can pump iron and then they worry about a couple extra pounds on the rifle? You get a free workout with a heavier rifle. I had 70 pounds of gear including the rifle for a back pack bear hunt in the Olympics last year. The rifle (300 RUM) weighs 11.5 pounds. My buddy had a super ultra light something or other that kicks the crap out of him and isn't much good past 500 yards. I say get a rifle good to 1,200 yards and it weighs what it weighs. Same thing with binos or scopes. Get something that works for the intended purpose and it weighs what it weighs.

 

[Pdvdh]

I have to say I never understood having a light rifle for backpacking and such. I mean guys will join a gym so they can pump iron and then they worry about a couple extra pounds on the rifle? You get a free workout with a heavier rifle. I had 70 pounds of gear including the rifle for a back pack bear hunt in the Olympics last year. The rifle (300 RUM) weighs 11.5 pounds. My buddy had a super ultra light something or other that kicks the crap out of him and isn't much good past 500 yards. I say get a rifle good to 1,200 yards and it weighs what it weighs. Same thing with binos or scopes. Get something that works for the intended purpose and it weighs what it weighs.

Dumbest thing I ever heard. I hunt to enjoy the hunt. Not to place myself thru a physical endurance test. When you start hunting successfully, and have to begin packing game animals out, in addition to all of your gear, you might change your mind. Last but not least, when you're 60 years old, come back and tell us how to get this right. I expect you'll be sitting on the couch watching hunting shows, rather than packing around your overweight rifles... Good post!

 

[Engineering101]

phorwath

I starting hauling game out of the woods with a pack board when I was around 10. Been doing it ever since. Hauled a nice 6X6 elk out of a place called Devil's Canyon a couple seasons ago. It took 4 of us 3 days to get the meat to where the horses could get to it. I hunt to enjoy the hunt too though what I enjoy about hunting might be different than what you enjoy. If you enjoy a light rifle that is great. I just never understood it. And yes I do enjoy a bit of exercise. By the way, I'm 63 and not sitting on the couch yet.

 

[Pdvdh]

I suspect I've got you beat when it comes to long distance endurance hunts. I've been on at least two Dall sheep hunts that involved hiking more than 100 miles in, thru, and over mountains. One of those was a 22-day hunt, strictly living out of our backpacks. 40 air miles from the nearest residence/civilization. We dropped food from the plane about 17 miles from the air strip we were set down on, to replenish our food supply when we hiked in. The guide that had been hunting that area for the prior 20 years said they'd never seen another hunter. We saw a huge 42" dall ram and could have killed it with our rifle at 60yds, but we were bow hunting. The guide and his client were both very disappointed when they reached the head of the river cut and found us camped there. The guide told us they were after that ram. They knew the ram was living in that locale. I lost 10lbs of weight during that hunt and my partner lost 15lbs. We both thought our knees and ankles were swollen when we took our first shower back in the civilized world. They weren't swollen. Our legs were shrunken.

On a differnt sheep hunt, our air taxi pilot set us down 42 air miles from the location we walked back out to. Again 40 miles from civilization. After hunting for 7 days, we packed one ram back out those 42 miles. It took 2 1/2 days of steady travel. No trails. Cross country in the wilds of an Alaskan mountain range.

I've packed black bear, brown bear, moose, deer, sheep, mountain goat, and caribou. It requires 7 separate trips to pack out a mature bull moose. A really large one might require 8, even 9 trips. And then camp must still be packed back out.

The last time I packed a 12lb rifle into the mountains was on a Mt. Goat hunt 22 years ago. Six miles into the mountains. Twice up and down the mountain. Last time down the mountain was with a billy, and then six miles back out. I was 37 then, and I've never packed a rifle that heavy since.

Packing out a bull caribou in western Alaska when I was 21 years old, I suspect I was packing 150 to 160 lbs of weight, which would include 8-9lbs of rifle. I weighed 165lbs soaking wet. I pinched a nerve in my back, hip or somewhere carrying that heavy load. Didn't notice it while out ther in the wilds. Too many other discomforts to notice a little deadness to feeling on my right leg. I later realized I'd lost feeling over an area of skin above my right knee, and that feeling has never returned.

I've backpack hunted in Alaska for 37 years. Having done that, I'll pay an extra $600 to purchase a scope that's a mere 8oz lighter in weight. I'm not rich. But that's $600 well spent, knowing how far, and in what terrain, I'll be carrying that scope.

I've done the tough Rambo stuff. No longer interested. My enjoyment of the hunt is equally important to any success I might have. And I enjoy hunting a lot more carrying a 9lb rifle on top of a 50-130lb pack, than an 11 or 12lb rifle. Folks that believe carrying 12-13lbs of rifle is the equivalent of 12-13lbs of weight well centered within a quality backpack simply don't know what they're talking about, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Timber338]

Ok, phorwath and Engineering101, your posts echo EXACTLY what is going on inside my head. One minute I think I'll just leave my ATACR on my 338 RUM and then next minute I've convinced myself I need to go ultralight.

What's great is having the options! I am fortunate enough right now in my life to still be in great shape and young enough (37) where it really does not matter too much. I'll soak up the weight either way.

One thought that I had about the extreme heavy option (ATACR) is that the scope nearly doubles as a spotting scope. I've never been a trophy hunter so I do not own a fancy spotting scope and don't want to carry the weight in even if I did own one. Hunt with the ATACR and the fantastic optics at 25x can really let you see some good detail. Obviously some value in that.

Maybe the 38 oz ATACR is too extreme for a backpacking rifle, but where is the line? My rifle would weight about 11.25 pounds with the ATACR and be a bit top heavy.

The SHV is still pretty dang heavy for the illuminated 5x20 at 30.5 ounces and my rifle would weigh about 10.5. But would definitely get me out to 1200 yards.

I know that the Swaro Z5 and maybe even the leupold VX6 are lightweight options I need to consider. It's just that compromise of weight vs features. I wish I did not have to compromise.

 

[Engineering101]

phorwath

There is maybe 1 in 100 guys my age could have done the bear hunt me and my buddy (who is 42) did last Fall and come out unscathed. The real problem was the 1,000 foot vertical rock climb to get into the basin we wanted to hunt. Having said that, my hat is off to you. I think your adventures have out adventured mine. But it sounds like you are about 6 months from being an "old fart" yourself though so you better get ready for that couch. What do you say we both buy ATVs so our wives won't have to worry so much - and then you could go back to that 12 pound rifle that you know you love?

All kidding aside, looking back, wouldn't you love to hit the rewind button and do it all over again, nerve damage and all? I know I would but as they say, Father Time is undefeated and he is coming after us both.

In the interest of full disclosure, I do have 3 "sporter weight" rifles (all classic Sakos). They wieigh 10.0, 10.4 and 10.6 pounds but... I didn't take any of them backpacking.

 

[Pdvdh]

phorwath

All kidding aside, looking back, wouldn't you love to hit the rewind button and do it all over again, nerve damage and all? I know I would but as they say, Father Time is undefeated and he is coming after us both.

Yes, those were good times, despite the physical stress and strain. I've learned that my mind may still be willing to pursue things that my body isn't. I used to be able to get in shape during a long hard hunt. Now I normally just get tired and sore, and more tired, to the point the body controls the mind. That about sums it up. It's mind over body during the vitality of youth years. I've found it becomes body over mind as the body ages.

T338,
I should temper my comments above by saying it would be unusual for me to end up in a situation where I would be shooting a distance farther than 1000-1100 yards. I don't set up for anything that far where I've been hunting the past 20 years, and the terrain I'm in hardly allows for it. If I was backpacking into areas providing the real possibility for average shots in the 800-1200 yd range, and possibly to 1500 yds, I might consider packing a heavier rifle. In my mind, the terrain would also more than likely be a little friendlier than where I hunt. One of the reasons my shots are apt to be less than 1000yds is when I'm hiking up river cuts in the mountains, it's steep enough that 1000 yds will reach up to ridgeline/mountain tops. 1000yds will cover the majority of what I can see. And if I see a ram farther than 1000yds, I can usually find a way to approach within 800yds. Sometimes I'll have to approach closer than that just to get into a line-of-sight shooting position. In comparison, I've seen pictures of the terrain out west that's a little bit mellower and a guy could feasibly shoot as far as the eye can see (which is a long long ways in some of those photos).

Another point I should mention is that all my backpack hunting is on foot, once I leave the highway vehicle. I have no 4-wheeler ATV, no motorbike, no snowmachine, to assist in transport.

You mentioned compromise. I'm explaining my compromises under the conditions I hunt in. Seems like we're continually cursed with the need to compromise. I spend way more time packing my rifle than I do shooting it. And there are plenty of times I carry that rifle on a hunt and never shoot it. The shooting is much more fun than the packing. So I've settled into the 9 1/2lb weight range personal limit, as carried in the field. I've found that a rifle in that weight range can be very capable out to 1000yds. Which is my compromise/limitation.