**** lodge/masons oaths ****

[bigbuck]

I had recently read in a thread were their is some christian masons on this site. This has lead me to start a thread on this subject concerning Christian masons. befor I go any further I want to say that I mean in know way to belittle you as a person but I will not agree with masons doctrin or swearing to such an Oath I will use verses from the KJV BIBLE to show you what Jesus said concerning Oaths and swearing.Again my intent is not to belittle you as a person. I believe that their is good people that are masons / Christians.

I have 3 books that I will use at this time.

1. Blue Lodge And Chapter Masonry . ( This is the book that they use, I'm not suppose to have it) For the non masons that may be reading this it shows all of their hand shakes with pics, shows their initiation progress and the layout of their meetings! It also shows the Oath that every new mason swears in to.

2. Lodges Examined by the BIBLE. Author Dr.John R. Rice

3. The book that is above all KJV HOLY BIBLE. (The written WORD of GOD)

Text is taken from 1st book mentioned above. pg 69 handbook of free masonry! Title Rite of secrecy.*
This is the Entered Apprentice Obligation "I, James Hunt most solemnly and sincenerly promise and swear, that I will always hail, ever conceal and never reveal any of the secret arts, parts or points of the hidden mysteries of Ancient Freemasonry, wich have been heretofore,may at this time,or shall at any future period,be communicated to me as such, to any person or persons whomsoever, except it be to a true and lawful brother of this degree,or within a regularly constituted (Lodge of Masons ), and neither unto him nor them, until by strict trial,due examination,or legal information,I shall have found him or them as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself.

'I furthermore promise and swear that I will not write,print,stamp,stain,cut,carve,mark nor engrave them , norcause the same to be done upon any immovable , capable of receiving the least impression of a word, syllable , letter or character, whereby the same may become legible or intelligible to any person under the canopy of heaven.
READ THIS PART CAREFULLY "All this I most solenly and sincerely promise and swear , with a firm and steadfast resolution, to keep and perform the same without any equivocation, mental reservation or secret evasion of mind whatever, binding myself under a no less penalty than that of having my THROAT CUT ACROSS, MY TONGUE TORN OUT BY IT'S ROOTS AND BURIED IN THE ROUGH SANDS OF THE SEA AT LOW WATER MARK, WHERE THE TIDE EBBS AND FLOWS TWICE IN TWENTY FOUR HOURS, SHOULD I EVER KNOWINGLY VIOLATE THIS MY SOLEMN OBLIGATION OF AN ENTERED APPRENTICE MASON. SO HELP ME GOD, AND KEEP ME STEADFAST IN THE DUE PERFORMANCE OF THE SAME."

Does this sound like something a christian should committ to? Does it sound Holy?

This text is from the second book mentioned above. Dr. John R. Rice

pg 10 III CONCERNING THE OATHS OF THE LODGES:
1. mathew 5:12:
"But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven;for it is GOD's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt though swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

Swear not at all," Christian, Jesus said. No Lodge member in the world has kept this command.

James 5:12
"But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay,nay;least ye fall into condemnation."

notice the command "Swear not" is above all things!

Scripture used is KJV

Being a Worshipful Master, Brother Senior Deacon, Royal Arch Mason will never get you into heaven nor will it be right in the sight of God the scripture I posted is clear about that.

LODGE INITIATION
Pg. 54,53 of the blue lodge and chapter masonry....
I don't see how anyone would go through with this.
The secretary says to the candidate "Are you willing to submit to these rules? he is then told that he will be divested of his clothes. The junior Deacon then proceeds, with assistance of the Stewards, to prepare the candidate for initiation, which is done in the following manner: He is divested of his coat, vest, pants, boots, stockings, (DRAWERS,) neck tie, collar,-in fact everything except his shirt. He is then handed a pair of DRAWERS (always furnished by the Lodge), which he putts on.All the studs, sleeve-buttons, etc., are taken off his shirt, and any iron buttons in his inside shirt, are cut out. Everything of a metallic kind is taken away;the left leg of the drawers is rolled above the knee, so as to make the left foot, leg and knee bare; A slipper is put on his right foot, with the heel slipshod, a hood-wink is fastened over his eyes, a blue rope , called a cable-tow is put once around his neck, and he is then duly and truly prepared to be made a Mason. This is just the start of it all.

Thanks for reading

Bigbuck

 

[Pdvdh]

I have 3 books that I will use at this time.

1. Blue Lodge And Chapter Masonry . ( This is the book that they use, I'm not suppose to have it) For the non masons that may be reading this it shows all of their hand shakes with pics, shows their initiation progress and the layout of their meetings! It also shows the Oath that every new mason swears in to.

2. Lodges Examined by the BIBLE. Author Dr.John R. Rice

3. The book that is above all KJV HOLY BIBLE. (The written WORD of GOD)

Does this sound like something a christian should committ to? Does it sound Holy?

Thanks for reading

Bigbuck

You the same bigbuck that boasted of calling the elected president of this country ZEBRA in this thread?
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f63/judge-carter-sold-us-out-50888/index6.html

Or were you littlebuck that day, converted to bigbuck today?

Does this sound like something a christian should committ to? Does it sound Holy?

Might want to pull the log out of your own eye and lead by example, before attempting to 'correct' others. I believe your intentions to be good in your own mind, but if you expect credibility, you need to behave and Post credibly.

Many of the terrorists committing suicide bombings today are being encouraged in the name of God. There's no higher calling or authority than God to justify the accomplishment of any cause - holy or not.

 

[bigbuck]

You the same bigbuck that boasted of calling the elected president of this country ZEBRA in this thread?
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f63/judge-carter-sold-us-out-50888/index6.html

Or were you littlebuck that day, converted to bigbuck today?

Does this sound like something a christian should committ to? Does it sound Holy?

Might want to pull the log out of your own eye and lead by example, before attempting to 'correct' others. I'm believe your intentions to be good in your own mind, but if you expect credibility, you need to behave and Post credibly.

Many of the terrorists committing suicide bombings today are being encouraged in the name of God. There's no higher calling or authority than God to justify the accomplishment of any cause - holy or not.

Yes I am Bigbuck. Your right I used incorrect language when I said he was a Zebra ,I should have said he is a descendant of Ham he is a hammite.

Thanks for your reply

Bigbuck -Today

 

[Roll-Yur-Own]

Bigbuck, please explain what a Hammite is.

Are you saying he is a decendant of Noah's son Hamm?

What is your basis?

Also, wasn't the king James Bible written 1600 years after the Catholic Bible and the Hebrew before that? (Hebrew Bible of course does not have the new testmament)
So.......nobody was right until then?

Doesn't Jesus say not to Judge? Yet you are saying that other people are not getting into Heaven.

Just for curiosity, are the Jews and/or Blacks not getting in? Catholics, Budists, Hindus? All going to burn in eternal fire?

I just need to know because you obviously Jesus' new chosen one.

Didn't pat robinson say that 9/11 happened because there is too much homosexuality in the world? Do you belive that? If so, then you guys are on the same side of the terrorist who attacked us because we a too full of sin!

 

[roaddog1m]

Bigbuck,

You seem to have a lot of idle time on your hands. You know what they say about idle hands? Maybe taking an English class would pass your time more productively. You are spending a vast amount of time and energy attacking the wrong people. (I'm not a Mason) However, I've said it before and I'll repeat it: The Masons that I personally know, are polite educated professionals, who spend a portion of their time each month helping people less fortunate then themselves. I would be interested to know how much time you spend helping strangers less fortunate then your self.

Tom

 

[yotefever]

Bigbuck, didn't you know that the Great Commission was to stick your head in the sand when you see others going astray. I'm sure 2Timiothy 2:24-26 was to be ignored, "24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, 26 and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. "
At least you didn't judge anyone just pointed out things that go against the Bible.
People sure have no tolerance for being told what's in the Bible.
Hard for anyone to judge what people believe in their heart, concerning their relationship with Jesus which is the important part. So I guess it's just better to steer people in the right direction. There sure will be a lot of 'good' people wondering what happened, you know the ones that want to go to Heaven but want nothing to do with Jesus or listen/follow His Word.
Matthew 7:21-23 21 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'
My advise would be to get to know Him Read his word ;-)

 

[Roll-Yur-Own]

Jesus also said...

"What you do for the least of my brothers you do for me."

and

"There are many different mansions in my fathers house"

Only those who follow the king james Bible are going to heaven?

You guys are absurd.

Didn't Jesus want people to stop listening to religious leaders who "Laid heavy burdens for people to carry while they themselves don't lift a finger" ?

Jesus was a liberal jew. Very left wing. He would have been considered communist by your standards. This is a fact. He was an Essene. "Its easier for a camel to pass through a needles eye then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

You guys would also call him anti gun.
"Put away your swords"

You want to twist Jesus into some right wing hard line conservative who will send everyone to hell then you are not too bright.

"God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son"

notice he so loved the WORLD. Not just you people.

You have no right to judge any mans relationship with the Lord. "Don't worry about the spec in your neighbors eye. First get the plank out of your own eye."

Fact is you guys really dont even follow Jesus. You follow some idiots who control you by telling you what Jesus wants and your going to burn for eternity if you don't listen and make them rich.

They need fuel for their private jets.

Remember Jimmy Swaggert with the hooker. (Was he just casting evil out of her?)

Can't remember that baker guys first name but his wife was Tammy Fay. He was doing his assistant Jessica Hahn and stealing money. His dogs had gold faucets in their doghouses.

Then there was pastor Ted Haggart. With a meth pipe and penis in his mouth!

But they are all going to heaven while good decent people are not?

And please, don't reply with your BS statement that nobody is good but the lord.

There is a pastor in oklahoma named Pearson. He went to Oral Roberts university and was very highly thought of. He had a ministry of over 3000. Then one day when watching TV he saw starving children in Africa and said it didn't make sense that the lord would put these people on this earth and make them suffer only to sent them to hell. So, the next day he told his congregation that God loves everyone and anyone can go to Heaven. All the big name ministers called him a heretic!

Listen to Jesus "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strenght, and all your mind." and "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF"

Shalom!

 

[yotefever]

Jesus also said...



Only those who follow the king james Bible are going to heaven?
Never said that. I find word meanings have changed since then and the KJV can be hard to understand. The New KJV is better and there are other ones that are good too.

You guys are absurd.
Very judgmental??

Didn't Jesus want people to stop listening to religious leaders who "Laid heavy burdens for people to carry while they themselves don't lift a finger" ?
In the Last Days there are a lot of 'church' leaders that you shouldn't listen too. I sure wouldn't want to be one with all the temptations they go through, like all people in 'high' places.

Jesus was a liberal jew. Very left wing. He would have been considered communist by your standards.
You don't even know what my standards are??

This is a fact. He was an Essene. "Its easier for a camel to pass through a needles eye then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."
I sure don't have to worry about the rich thing being out of work for almost a year.

You guys would also call him anti gun.
"Put away your swords"
Judgment again.


You want to twist Jesus into some right wing hard line conservative who will send everyone to hell then you are not too bright.
He gave His life for everyone but only those that believe/trust/rely on Him will have the GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE not working your way to Heaven.
"God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son"

notice he so loved the WORLD. Not just you people.
You sure are judgmental.

You have no right to judge any mans relationship with the Lord. "Don't worry about the spec in your neighbors eye. First get the plank out of your own eye."
I never judged any ones relationship, you would have to be a mind reader. You can get a hint sometimes but you can never really know. I actually like to give people the benefit of the doubt but then again I can be very trusting. Since you don't know me I guess you wouldn't know that.

Fact is you guys really dont even follow Jesus. You follow some idiots who control you by telling you what Jesus wants and your going to burn for eternity if you don't listen and make them rich.
There is that judgmental thing again, see a pattern here.

They need fuel for their private jets.
Never saw a jet at any church I've belonged to, heck non of the pastors even owned a new car.

Remember Jimmy Swaggert with the hooker. (Was he just casting evil out of her?)
That is one of how many pastors out there???

Can't remember that baker guys first name but his wife was Tammy Fay. He was doing his assistant Jessica Hahn and stealing money. His dogs had gold faucets in their doghouses.
They started out as a kids puppet ministry, I read somewhere. I never met them so I can't say much.

But they are all going to heaven while good decent people are not?
I don't know about them.
If being good will get you to Heaven why did Jesus have to die on the cross?
Being good is a result of being a believer in Jesus and you can be good without being a believer but not being a believer, trusting and relying on Jesus, you are just a good person with an eternity that will not be a happy one.

And please, don't reply with your BS statement that nobody is good but the lord.
Nobody is perfect or they wouldn't be human they would be God.

=Quote]

 

[Roll-Yur-Own]

I don't think I'm being judgemental. Evangelical Christians don't hide there views.

Let me ask you this.

Are the Jews, Hindus, and Buddists not going to Heaven?

By the way, you commented on a lot in my post by didn't comment on Ted Haggert. Care to?

 

[yotefever]

Depends on who they think Jesus is and their relationship with Him.

Never heard of him.

 

[jmden]

Don't let the failures of many very human people derail your search for ultimate truth. That is a very common copout of many--been there myself. It's a worthless point.

We are all hypocrites and fail and sin miserably everyday and that is exactly why we need the forgiveness that only Christ can give paid for by his death on the cross. His life for our life, for life 'is in the blood' (Lev. 17:11--"For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life." This was the basis and reason for the Jewish sacrificial system. When we sin, it is so serious to God that the life blood of a creature must be shed to atone for our sins. God is equal parts love and justice. (We often want to talk about the love and little about the justice.) This system was ended with the ultimate blood sacrifice to take away the sins of the world in entirety--Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. We deserve nothing but condemnation and death for our sins, yet He chose to save ANYONE if only we truly ask His forgiveness and repent of our sins, accept Him as Lord and Savior of our lives and truly seek and follow Christ (with many mistakes along the way, no doubt, thank God for the forgiveness that I need every day) for the remainder of our earthly lives.

God did not create this horrific world we live in now to be the way it is. It was initially created perfect and will be restored in the future.

I can get into the whole creation/evolution debate, but suffice to say that a tremendous amount of evidence (I say much better evidence than that twisted to support evolution and anti-true God philosophies.) to support exactly what the Bible says regarding a literal six day creation, Noah's flood (hmmm...where did all those fossils come from all over the world and hmm... what specific set of requirements do you have to have for fossils to be created in the first place?), etc. exists and is suppressed in a tremendous fashion by the 'scholars of this age'--look that phrase up in your Bible. If you saw Ben Stein's movie (Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed) a couple of years ago, you'll start to just get a feel for the very tip of the iceberg...

God created Adam and Eve with an ability to make a choice to chose to obey God and love Him or not. They had a perfect sinless life and relationship with their Creator. There was only one thing they were told not to do, however, and they did it. With one sin, Adam and Eve caused the curse on the perfect world God made and now the ravages of sin affect EVERYTHING on this earth from that time on and it's not getting any better--the justice part of God. Some of God's power/blessing was lifted from this earth at that time and we all bear the result of that original sin. Don't mess with Him.

BUT, God, in his infinite grace and mercy, (the love part of God) provided a way out of this mess we got ourselves into through the holy and perfect sacrifice of His Son, Jesus. We, we all, nailed Him to that cross. He was put there for and because of our sins, that through his sacrifice (life for life) we could be restored to a right relationship with God that allow us to spend an eternity with Him. A wonderful gift...only for the asking.

Perfect created world...all of God's blessing. Current cursed/sinful world...some of God's blessing...enough to find Him and a right relationship with Him (Rom 1:20). A 'world' completely void of God's blessing? Hell.

This world will be restored to that perfect, sinless world it once was, as mentioned in Isaiah, and was meant to be and those that choose to follow Christ and not reject his sacrifice for us will live in that perfect world with no pain, no sorrow.

We like to think we have all kinds of choices in life. In reality we have two--in every action, behavior, thought, etc. We either choose to follow and obey the Creator of the Universe or we choose to sin against Him and reject Him. Both provide clear pathways.

The question is, will you choose Him?

 

[Roll-Yur-Own]

Depends on who they think Jesus is and their relationship with Him.

Never heard of him.

Why don't you have the balls to say that you think they are going to hell. For a guy that I'm certain is not a democrat you sure gave a Bill Clinton answer. You know very well the tenants of those religions does not include Jesus. C'mon, say it. Have balls.

Please answer this. I really want to hear your thought on this.........

What happens to the babies killed by abortion? Do they go to Heaven? They didn't know Jesus?

As for never hearing of Ted Haggert. You're full of it! He was leader of the "national association of evangeicals" You know exactly who he is. And if you really don't you do now.

Lucky for him he was counceled by four ministers for damage control.....I mean.....to "embrace" his heterosexual side. He's completely heterosexual? Yes, he's completely heterosexual with a taste for penis. Give me a break!

Read below and lets hear you thoughts on this hypocrit:

Ted Arthur Haggard (born June 27, 1956) is a former American evangelical preacher. Known as Pastor Ted to the congregations he served, he is the founder and former pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado; a founder of the Association of Life-Giving Churches; and was leader of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) from 2003 until November 2006.

In November 2006, he resigned from all of his leadership positions after he admitted soliciting prostitute Mike Jones for homosexual sex and methamphetamine. Initially Haggard denied even knowing Mike Jones, but as a media investigation proceeded he acknowledged that some allegations, such as his purchase of methamphetamine, were true. He later added "sexual immorality" to his list of confessions.

After the scandal was publicized, Haggard entered three weeks of intensive counseling, overseen by four ministers. In February 2007, one of those ministers, Tim Ralph, said that Haggard "is completely heterosexual."[1] Ralph later said he meant that therapy "gave Ted the tools to help to embrace his heterosexual side." As of early 2009, Haggard continues to receive counseling, and now he says that he is a “heterosexual with issues.”[2]

 

[Roll-Yur-Own]

JMDen, if you think there were no dinosaurs you are a moron. There are two stories of creation in Genesis which one is right?

Why couldn't God have created dinosaurs?

So why don't you answer the question.

Are the Jews, Hindus, Buddists, and members of non-christian religions going to heaven? If not where are they going?

Again I implore someone to answer this.....Where do the babies killed by abortion go?

 

[roaddog1m]

Roll-yur-own,

I have to say that I concur with some of what you are saying. Part of me believes that ANY organized religion is a waste of time and money. But part of me wants to believe that there is something else. I don't think that a church is a megaphone to gods ear and the only way that he hears you is if you are sitting in church singing (or chanting) some silly song that you have had to memorize. Everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die. I bet we could all argue over bible verses till the wee hours of the night. It's pointless to go on attempting to change someones mind about religion. Just be an American and let them believe what they want and you do the same. Arguing over which religion is the one going to heaven is like an arguement over who would win in a fight, Superman or Mighty Mouse? What do you expect? The guy on the other end of the internet is going to say, "Wow, I guess your right and I'm wrong and everything my parents have ever told me was also wrong. Thanks, I'll go wake my wife now and tell her that we're switching churches because I lost an arguement about religion on the internet."

Find something worthwhile to argue about.

Tom